McGrady and Dampier as Grizzlies?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey Grizz fans.

I heard this on the radio today in Washington, DC (on the Washington Post) show......Michael Wilbon and Tony K.

Jerry West was talking about the upcoming off-season, and he said they are trying to pick up

T-MAC and Erick Dampier. What a duo if that happens. We'll see in in July.

Stay tune for further details. </div>

- A poster on the Grizzlies board on the Commercial Appeal site.


I don't know how credible this guy is, but I believe him. Anyway, how amazing would it be if the Grizzlies could get these guys? What would they have to give up to get them? Do you think they'd have to give up James Posey, Pau Gasol, AND Jason Williams?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post"> Do you think they'd have to give up James Posey, Pau Gasol, AND Jason Williams?</div>

Absolutely. I think they might even have to give up Stromile Swift. I won't be banking on this to happen though, the Grizzlies are good as they are.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I won't be banking on this to happen though, the Grizzlies are good as they are.</div>

Jerry West has done bigger miracles before.

 

i really wouldnt be surprised to see damp sign with the grizz, but t-mac is a bit of a strech. it would be possible, but it would cost the grizz the depth thats made them so successfull. having that 4 headed monster of posey/miller/battier/wells all rotating in and out of the 2 and 3 spots has really worked for them. putting t-mac in there would cost them at least 2 of those guys, plus someone else...dont know if that would be such a good idea.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post">- A poster on the Grizzlies board on the Commercial Appeal site.


I don't know how credible this guy is, but I believe him. Anyway, how amazing would it be if the Grizzlies could get these guys? What would they have to give up to get them? Do you think they'd have to give up James Posey, Pau Gasol, AND Jason Williams?</div>


If they give up Posey, they will give up their best defender, Pau Gasol their best player, Jason Williams their only good point gard.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kareem.02:</div><div class="quote_post">If they give up Posey, they will give up their best defender, Pau Gasol their best player, Jason Williams their only good point gard.</div>

Good point, but look at their lineup afterwards -

C - Dampier/Swift/Tsakalidas
PF - Wright/Outlaw/Humphrey
SF - Miller/Battier/D.Jones
SG - McGrady/Wells
PG - Watson/T.Bell

And the #50 pick.

Remember how well Miller and McGrady work together?

 

Sounds good to me.

 

Boo. I don't like it.

 

It sounds real good, but then scratch the small ball, 10 man lineup. McGrady will hog up shots. They are still a pretty deep team. Watson can run a team right? If this gets pulled off, it would really help them. Sometimes a team like that where there are no superstars, doesn't play very well when you insert someone like that.

You guys wouldn't mind giving up Gasol?

 

I wouldn't consider TMac too much of an asset mentally. He may be somewhat of a veteran in terms of years, but he's immature and a bad leader. Posey and Wright worked well together, the though of Dampier and Wright just says block party, no true defense there. Dampier is a good choice, but he's kind of at the peak, he can't really get any better. Whereas this being a very young team with awesome potential, there's lots of room for improvement. TMac could greatly add to any team's offense but would demand a lot of time and possession of the ball. This team's not like that though, your best player doesn't get as much time as other stars do, you're a real team, TMac would ruin that. Also I don't think you'll ever see a change in TMac like what Brown did for J-Will, Brown's the only one who can control him and make him play like a good player. I say only go for Dampier, he'd add enough years, experience and smarts all things considered.

 

[quote name='Wave']I don't really think that the 50th pick will even play a big role. Troy Bell and Dahntay were first-round picks last year and they didn't even play much. What makes you think that the 50th pick would have an impact on the team?

My reasonable prediction for the pick would be a so-so go at summer league, and a final cut in training camp.

 

I hope they don't sign Dampier.
He only played well because it was a contract year and he wanted to cash in.

As for Tracy McGrady, **** Tracy McGrady.

I) Why would Orlando want Gasol? So all three of their best players are power forwards?
II) Why would Memphis want McGrady? So they have another talented swingman that they have to give playing time to? (Even though they can't find enough time for the guys they already have.) And I'm sure they'd love to give up size to add another swingman to this team.

Jerry might do these, and it might even work, but I don't like it. It's definitely not something I would do.

After winning 50 games and making the playoffs with the 3rd youngest team in the NBA, you don't trade your best players away for Tracy McGrady and hope the Erick Dampier stays motivated. You just don't.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Magic Johnson:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't consider TMac too much of an asset mentally. He may be somewhat of a veteran in terms of years, but he's immature and a bad leader.</div>

I wouldn't call him immature. He may be unintelligent and egotistical, but he's grown out of his immaturness as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, it doesn't matter if he would be a bad leader, because he wouldn't be our team leader. On the Magic they can give him the pretty little "C" to wear on his jersey, and they can tell him he's the captain. However, the fact remains that Hubie Brown, Jerry West, and the upper management run this team. It wasn't that way this year because we don't have an All-Star player either. If you put Gasol on the Magic, he'd be an All-Star player. Make no mistake; if McGrady were to be a Grizzlie next season, he'd be the best player on the team but not the captain or leader.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Posey and Wright worked well together,</div>

Posey plays the 2 and the 3 on offense, and on defense his position depends on whether the other team's 2 or 3 is a bigger offensive threat. If the other team's 2 is the bigger offensive threat, he'll play 2 on defense; if the other team's 3 is the bigger offesnive threat, he'll play 3 on defense. I don't see how he and Wright work well together when they're on opposite ends of the court for most of the game, nor do I see any chemistry between those two players. Miller and McGrady on the other hand have great chemistry. That's one of the reasons I'm really excited about this news.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">the though of Dampier and Wright just says block party, no true defense there.</div>

Dampier and Wright play real hard defense; they're not just shot-blockers. A block party would be Theo Ratliff and Stromile Swift. Make no mistake, Dampier and Wright would give the Grizzlies the biggest and baddest starting frontcourt in the NBA. I'm not sure who would play C and who would play C, because they can both hold their own at each position for the full 82 games.

Any way you look at it, it's a step up from Pau Gasol's defense though. Sure, Gasol was an offensive threat with his hook shots and flops. We all know how unpolished his defensive game was though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dampier is a good choice, but he's kind of at the peak, he can't really get any better. Whereas this being a very young team with awesome potential, there's lots of room for improvement. </div>

Well, that's exactly what the Grizzlies are getting away from. They don't want a player past his prime or a player who is developing. They already have plenty of that; heck, they're one of the three youngest teams in the NBA. They want to win now, and there's no better player than Dampier to help them do that. Not to mention he's a local kid ().

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I say only go for Dampier, he'd add enough years, experience and smarts all things considered.</div>

That contradicts what you said earlier about him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">TMac could greatly add to any team's offense but would demand a you're a real team, TMac would ruin that. Also I don't think you'll ever see a change in TMac like what Brown did for J-Will, Brown's the only one who can control him and make him play like a good player. </div>

McGrady only averaged eight more minutes per game than Pau Gasol did this season. I am sure that the Grizzlies could afford to give him an extra eight minutes per game.

I was thinking about it a little more, and it would suit the Grizzlies better if they kept Posey and sent Wells (and and possibly Battier). Posey means too much to us, and I don't see Wells accepting that much of a change in minutes per game. He's one of those selfish players who would probably refuse to play over playing time, like Jason Williams.

Also, I don't see a reason for Hubie Brown to change Tracy McGrady. As long as McGrady doesn't come in to Memphis with the mentality that it's his team, he should be fine. As Kobe 8 Ball said, this would finally give McGrady the help that he needs. Let's face it, on Orlando there's nothing for him to do but shoot. He could pass it, but who? Keith Bogans? Let's face it, Memphis' lineup is a more than a little bit more talented than Orlando's. McGrady will have more options.

Let's say that even on the new team he shoots the same amounts of shots per game. What bad can come from that? We're not bringing him in here to be a role player. We want him to shoot the ball more than everyone else; he's our star.

Finally, I think that Hubie can adjust the rotation to a sort of 9.5 man rotation. Check out this minute distribution and tell me if you don't think it would work -

C - Eric Dampier (26 mpg)/Stromile Swift (22 mpg)
PF - Lorenzen Wright (26 mpg)/Bo Outlaw (22 mpg)
SF - James Posey (24 mpg)/Mike Miller (24 mpg)
SG - Tracy McGrady (36 mpg)/Dahntay Jones (12 mpg)
PG - Earl Watson (26 mpg)/Troy Bell (22 mpg)

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ezra:</div><div class="quote_post">
I) Why would Orlando want Gasol? So all three of their best players are power forwards?
II) Why would Memphis want McGrady? So they have another talented swingman that they have to give playing time to? (Even though they can't find enough time for the guys they already have.) And I'm sure they'd love to give up size to add another swingman to this team.
</div>

Well, remember Jerry West's philosophy on the draft? He drafts the Best Player Available. Sometimes you already have a lot of players at a draftee's position, but if the draftee is the best talent available then you take him. The same kind of philosophy applied to both teams here. Gasol is an all-star caliber player regardless, and McGrady is a superstar regardless.

 

I don't like this trade. The Grizz are 2-3 years from fully maturing into a killer. I wouldn't mess it up.

 

I don't think Bonzi Wells will be with the Grizzlies if they acquire T-Mac and Dampier. He has to be involved with the trade too. Possibly, Wells, Gasol for T-Mac. I don't know if Dampier is a free agent, but it would be Miller for Dampier or something.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Van Exel:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Bonzi Wells will be with the Grizzlies if they acquire T-Mac and Dampier. He has to be involved with the trade too. Possibly, Wells, Gasol for T-Mac. I don't know if Dampier is a free agent, but it would be Miller for Dampier or something.</div>

That's exactly what I was thinking (Wells/Gasol for McGrady). We've got the depth to make up for Gasol leaving, and McGrady/Wells play the same position. I think Orlando would do it, and I think West would do it.

I don't like the idea of trading Miller for Dampier though, unless the McGrady deal doesn't happen. Mike Miller is supposidely Tracy McGrady's best friend in the league, and vice versa. I remember McGrady throwing fits at the beginning of the season, because he didn't have Miller as his co-captain anymore. If the McGrady deal doesn't go through though, we can afford to lose Miller for Dampier. It's just that he and McGrady help eachother's games out too much to seperate them (good move Orlando!).

Does anyone think that Golden State would do a Watson/Outlaw or Battier/Outlaw for Dampier trade?

 

i think they can give up posey wells and williams but i think will be stupid give up a player with so future as gasol i think if he have gasol and tmac are championship candidates. and with a good center as erik dampier and mike miller, stromile swift, earl watson and other as other players

 

if they wanted to get tmac, and assuming they do get dampier, i dont think they should get rid of williams. they can still offer posey and gasol, and a few other guys... but keeping williams in the backcourt w/ mcgrady would probably be the best for them as mcgrady will have someone to run the break with. posey, gasol, watson, and either outlaw or swift, and maybe a future draft pick would probably work. but i think in order to make it work, gasol has to go to get tmac more shots. maybe send mike miller back to orlando in the deal as well... bonzi is a good enough backup for tmac imo

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting zonebeast:</div><div class="quote_post">i think they can give up posey wells and williams but i think will be stupid give up a player with so future as gasol</div>

Well, the first problem with that is that Orlando will probably want an All-Star type player (assuming that they don't see Posey like that) instead of wanting three above-average starts. You can never truely tell what goes on in a GM's mind; However, if I were running Orlando, I'd settle for nothing less than an All-Star caliber player.

The second problem is cap room. Bonzi Wells, Jason Williams, and James Posey together would be a lot of money. Orlando would have to add some other players (like Juwon Howard), and that would really tip the trade in Memphis' favor. Just as I doubt they'd settle for anything less than an All-Star caliber player, I doubt they'd want to add anything onto that deal.

There's one other thing I don't like about that statement. I believe that James Posey is a better player than Pau Gasol. It's very arguable; however, I'm inclined to think that the juxtaposition of Posey's defense to Gasol's tips the scale in Posey's favor. Gasol's offensive numbers are nice, and I believe he's a great player. His offensive moves can be limited though; he's very easy to figure out. On the other hand, Posey can do it all. He can slash, he can shoot (clutch shots as well), and he can set up another player for the shot. He's like Shane Battier with better defense, rebounding, and shooting ability. I say that because just like Battier he's always doing the little things and diving on the floor for loose balls. Without him, the Grizzlies might take a nosedive. The scary thing about Posey is that he is still very young and improving. This year he finished in the top three for Most Improve Player (if I recall correctly). Orlando should see that in him and consider him just as good of a player as Gasol, and West should see that in him as well and be reluctant to trade him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i think if he have gasol and tmac are championship candidates. and with a good center as erik dampier and mike miller, stromile swift, earl watson and other as other players </div>

I see how you could think that, but I think it would take more. Just look at some of the other teams in the West. A lot of them have two (or even three) All-Stars. The Grizzlies are still a long way from winning a championship, and Jerry West knows that (even though he says he wants 'more' to the Memphis press). Teams get lucky every other playoff series and make a deep run, but I think the Grizzlies won't be truely capable of a championship for at least four or five years (barring some miracle trades and signings)

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">if they wanted to get tmac, and assuming they do get dampier, i dont think they should get rid of williams. they can still offer posey and gasol, and a few other guys...</div>

Just like I was saying earlier, Posey is a bigger part of the team than you realize. If I had to place value on each Grizzlie, I'd probably place the third or fourth biggest value on Jason Williams; however, I don't see him as the most valuable asset we have. If we trade away Pau Gasol and James Posey, then we are trading away our two best players. Sure we'll be getting a superstar in return, but at what cost? We don't want to go too overboard in getting McGrady.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but keeping williams in the backcourt w/ mcgrady would probably be the best for them as mcgrady will have someone to run the break with</div>

Having a backcourt of Jason Williams and Tracy McGrady actually scares me rather than excites me. I think it's a match made in hell. You think now that it would be great because Jason Williams would finally have someone to pass to; however, I am seeing potential problems with McGrady not getting enough touches, because Williams tends to be a bit of a "ball-hog".

Earl Watson and Tracy McGrady wouldn't run into any problems like that. It's like you completely forgot about Watson. He's fully capable of running a team; he's proven it when Jason Williams has been out. Hands down, he's been one of the top three backup point guards in the NBA this year; and he's only in his second year. The future is bright for Earl Watson at point guard. If that isn't enough, then we have Troy Bell who was a top fifteen draft pick last year. He's going to develop into a nice point guard (backup or starter). You see, even if the Grizzlies do trade Jason Williams then they will still have better point guards running things than they have in Orlando.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">posey, gasol, watson, and either outlaw or swift, and maybe a future draft pick would probably work.</div>

Now that's definitely too much. Memphis is trading away their whole core in that trade. Forget about the obvious cap reasons that would kill that trade; the Grizzlies would be giving up their three most promising young players (Posey, Gasol, Watson) while losing a lot of depth. Not to mention that their three best defensive players (arguably) are Posey, Outlaw, and Watson (in that order).

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but i think in order to make it work, gasol has to go to get tmac more shots.</div>

Check out some of my earlier posts. Pau Gasol takes those shots because that's his role. If Tracy McGrady came on the team, then his role would be as the main shot-taker of the team. The one player who is not accepting his role properly is Jason Williams. The Grizzlies need Jason Williams to do a better job of setting up the offense and finding the open man rather than taking his crazy shots. He's is and always has shown signs of being a "ball-hog".

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">maybe send mike miller back to orlando in the deal as well...</div>

We've been over this as well. Mike Miller and Tracy McGrady are two peas in a pod; they're the best of friends. One of the big plusses of having McGrady on the Grizzlies would be his play with Miller. It's become evident that the two play better together, kind of like Kobe and Shaq (although they don't have as close of a friendship as Miller and McGrady do). Also, if Orlando didn't want Miller before then why would they want him now? I think it'd be pretty stupid for a player to be traded back to his original team in just a little bit over a year apart.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> bonzi is a good enough backup for tmac imo</div>

So you have to have a certain skill level to be McGrady's backup? That's just plain rediculous. We've been over this as well. Wells will need to be traded because he's not going to be able to take playing 8-12 minutes per night behind McGrady. He is another one of those kids who thinks that he needs more minutes than he really does.