Meyers mandate to shoot swish3s

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by swish3, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Meyers needs a mandate to shoot enough swish3 attempts to score at least 9 points per half. Although some of you are convinced that he has instructions to take multiple attempts, the evidence is otherwise as the Clippers game Nov 25 demonstrated. We know that Meyers is a very coach compliant player who works hard to follow his instructions, and yet we see that he took only 4 swish3 attempts (and only 5 FG attempts) in 24 min. He was not looking to shoot when he got the ball, and did not rotate to his high percentage sweet spots to receive assist passes to make these scores. In my view, he does not have the assignment from the coaches to make the moves or to look for the shots to make the 10-20 points in each half that his excellent 53/53/94 shooting (currently) should be bringing.

    Meyers is providing major assets with his excellent screens, assists, rebounds, floor spacing, boxing out, and challenging opponents coming into the paint. That seems to be the essence of his assignment. But I do not see evidence that he is mandated to look for the high scoring action that he has proved to offer. If he were coached that his expected contribution is to include 9-15 points per half via swish3 scoring, I think that he would be looking to accomplish that goal. I do not believe that he would be failing to shoot if instructed.

    What does not add up for me is the comment that he is not looking to shoot because of lack of confidence or that he is waiting for someone yell at him to shoot. I think the opposite is true, in other words, that his decision to shoot the swish3 may be interfered with, or at least delayed, by shouting at him to shoot. In the Clippers game, he did not give evidence of having an assignment of swish3 shooting. In previous games, we have seen that he sometimes has used his threat of swish3 scoring to open up shots for others, both driving and arc shots, and to move defenders away from teammates. As BNM has masterfully stated, Meyers has used his shot decision play book to enhance the Blazer offense by not always shooting. It makes sense that this is part of the present offensive strategy.

    Meyers shoots a slow deliberate swish3 that is highly accurate, and he chooses when to shoot with movements that are a wide open book. Although he is criticized as being easily guarded, that is not the case as is shown by his present percentages and the playoff record (76.9%) that he holds. What is needed is for him and an assist pass to arrive precisely timed at a sweet spot for the swish3 attempt. This is where the missing coaching will provide the solution.

    However, to realize the benefit of having an elite swish3 percentage shooter, the Blazers need to include in the mix some plays in which Meyers is moved through not only screens and assists, but also timed arrival at sweet spots with swish3 scoring as the aim. I would then expect to see Meyers arrive at the corners, where he is quite effective, among other swish3 sweet spots, multiple times during offensive sets. But I have not seen Meyers moving to a corner spot, and have not seen Blazer teammates looking for him to be ready to shoot there, for several games.

    Because the Blazers have a swish3 scoring talent that now leads the Blazers, is a demonstrated playoff swish3 percentage shooter, and now among the top few swish3 percentage shooters in the NBA, it seems imperative to urge the coaches to instruct this compliant player to shoot enough swish3s to score at least 9 points per half, and see what happens. I question whether this has been done. If Meyers is in a hot streak zone, 2 of 4 is expected, 3 or 4 is possible, and even 10 of 13 swish3 scoring may again result!
     
  2. Strenuus

    Strenuus Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It's Meyers.

    Not the coaches.

    If after 7 years he doesn't know when/how/why to take an open shot, that's on Meyers.

    Stop making excuses for him.
     
  3. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Strenuus, let me see if I understand you. Do you know why Meyers, as an avowed highly coachable player, would not make swish3 attempts if actually instructed by the coaches to do so? How do you know that it is noncompliance with coaching instructions that explains the lack of at least 6 swish3 attempts in 24 playing min?

    In my view, there is a lack of the mandate and that is what I am getting at. I am not making excuses, just seeking winning solutions. By the way, there are several NBA excellent players who developed their scoring prowess in 7 or more years. But that is also off of my subject, which is getting to greater success.
     
  4. H.C.

    H.C. Writing Team

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    I actually read your entire post and agree with one thing.
    Nards needs to be shooting the ball.

    Nard's himself has said in interviews that teammates & coaches only get mad at him for NOT shooting.
    Terry Stotts has said this in interviews.
    CJ said a couple years ago in a post game interview 'every time he passes up a shot I want to punch him'.
    Nard's @fanfest this year said 'I have the range, when I'm open I have to shoot it'.

    A week or so ago Nard's admitted on the court by raising his hand after he passed up a wide open 3 that he fucked up.
    The entire bench and arena were yelling @ him for not shooting.
    Hell even our announcers said Stotts was giving Nard's an evil look for not shooting.
    Very next possession he came down with 20sec on the clock and knocked down a three.
    Announcers said on live TV 'And that's why we want you to shoot Meyers'.
    Everyone @ this game Nard's credit for this shot.
    Everyone wants to see Nard's shoot, no one is telling him not to.

    Nards is an excellent shooter and it's asinine to say he doesn't have the 'green light' to shoot.
    Stotts has no issues with players taking three pointers. Stotts has said he wants the team to get to 40 a game.
    That logic alone means Stotts is asking players to shoot MORE not less. aka There is a mandate that the three ball gets up.

    You're right that Nards is prolly the second or third best shooter on the team.
    You're wrong in assuming the coaching staff has said. 'Nards only shoot when we yell @ you'.

    But you'll never see this as you believe we're all haters if we criticize Nard's at all.
    I mean shit, one of your first posts on this website you basically told the forum that THIS FORUM is a direct cause of Nard's playing poorly.

    Funny thing is, I might not be a huge fan of Nards. But I am one of the few on this forum that will give him credit for playing well.
    I'm one of the few who said before the season started. Nard's needs to play, that he actually looked like an NBA role player last year.
    I'm one of the few who was okay with Ed Davis being let go to give Nard's a chance at a rotation spot.

    If you'd stop with the 'Nard's is being improperly coached' shtick I wouldn't tag you in game threads when Nard's passes up threes. No one would.
    In fact I'd say 9 times out of 10 this forum would agree with you.

    Aminu is a prime example of Terry Stotts not caring if you make or miss.
    Terry Stotts cares a ton if you pass up threes tho and has shown he'll bench you.
     
  5. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    I agree that Meyers needs to shoot more and this should be a mandate for the team as a whole. A simple pick and pop can get him open whenever we want. Getting Meyers 8 to 12 open threes a game should be a part of the offensive game plan. I’m dead serious. Dame & CJ ignore him sometimes. Add to that Meyers’ ability to score inside and there’s no reason he shouldn’t average 20 ppg. Again, I’m dead serious. His offensive skills are not being employed as much as they need to be.
     
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  6. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Hi HC. Thanks! I appreciate your comments and know that there are a lot of reports from previous seasons that Terry, Dame, teammates, fans, game commentators, and others were calling for Meyers to shoot more, and that Meyers has acknowledged needing to shoot more. But I am puzzled when I see that he is not looking to shoot in a game when his swish3 scoring power is needed for the win. Why would he not follow coaches instructions or be enthusiastic to win?

    Yes, from my early posts I have wondered why fans who understand that basketball is importantly based on confidence would not understand that shouting in a scolding way at a player and making negative cheap shot statements about him is quite likely to decrease his performance. I continue to question that sinking to trite statements rather than offering constructive criticism should be the choice of a real Blazer fan. It seems that some just want to vent to get off steam. It is better to try to offer something positive.

    I do not believe that you and many others on this forum are Meyers haters. There have been some hateful comments, but I associate them with the relatively few identities who wrote them, and do not generalize to you or others who post thoughtfully.

    Terry does care if you pass up shots, make mistakes, or slack off. But he is allowing players who have never made even 10 swish3s and are shooting only about 11% to continue to squander scoring opportunities. And whatever Terry is telling Meyers, he has not created in Meyers the expectation that he should score 9-15 swish3 points per half, or even per game. Why would Meyers have only tried 4 shots in 24 min in the Clippers game that would have been won with only 2 more swish3 scores?

    The point of this thread is to question what message Meyers has received from the coaches about how much swish3 scoring power he is assigned to bring in each game. In my view, when the expectation of scoring 9-15 swish3s, at least in the game if not in the half, can be confirmed to be understood by Meyers, Blazer winning % will improve.
     
  7. Sarni

    Sarni Well-Known Member

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    How many times will you repeat the playoff record 76.9%?
     
  8. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Kingspeed. I agree. Yes, Meyers should be using his 53/53/94 shooting skills, screening, movement, and on the ball energy to average 20 ppg, or maybe even 30 if his time on the floor increases. Meyers this year has shown that he can be the bench center to relieve Nurk, and can work well with Zach as the 4 to increase Blazer scoring to above 113 ppg (or maybe even to a league top 130 ppg). If we can realize more of his potential, this can be the year to win the WCF and even the NBA Championship.
     
  9. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

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    Until you acknowledge that NBA leading playoff record!
     
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  10. Strenuus

    Strenuus Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    But you saying IT IS the coaches is right, and you automatically dismiss my assumption which is based off of way more fact than your conjecture?

    You can't tell me you know i'm wrong when your answer is just as much conjecture.
     
  11. Strenuus

    Strenuus Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It's not even in more than 1 playoff series. It means nothing. Stop trying to make it mean something.
     
  12. borim69

    borim69 Member

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    I think we should put Meyers Leonard in the starting line up and pass him the ball and everyone stop turn around and yell at Meyers to shoot the ball. We should do it on every possession until we win the game
     
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  13. Sarni

    Sarni Well-Known Member

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    It's almost completely meaningless.
     
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  14. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig The Dude Abides Staff Member Moderator

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    Meyers took 4 threes against the Clippers. He made 2. He had plenty of other oppurtunities and passed them up. Stotts wants him to shoot 3s. He wants everyone to shoot 3s. Aminu sucks and Stotts wants him to shoot 3. Aminu doesn't give a shit if he sucks or not he just takes the shots. Everytime Meyers takes a 3, everytume he thinks about it.

    If you watch when he shoots he often hesitates. He has a shot process. His three point shot starts at a low center of gravity. He then brings the ball up high above his head to take the shot. If he doesn't have the space to shoot this way his shot is either off when he shoots it or he hesitates and ends up passing it. That to me the issue lies in his confidence and ability to create his shot.

    That said Stotts is also part of the problem not because he is telling Meyers not to shoot, but because he is not setting up plays to get Meyers open up top off the pick. Dame and CJ should be bringing defenders in and getting it out to him for more open shots to loosen up the opponents defense and reinforce the offense.

    Meyers has played well this year. I am impressed with his play. He should shoot more, have more plays drawn up to get him open. That part is Stotts failure. At the end of the game Meyers looked lost, tripping over Lillard and showing akwardness, because he is not used to the pressure if finishing games, but also because Stotts wrote the play up poorly. Stotts is failing to incorporate the skills of all his players to make a successful offense and a winning gameplan.

    So, its part Meyers shot mechanics, part confidence, and part Stotts.
     
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  15. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Meyers shot mechanics, if you go back and watch him shoot earlier in his career, he was much quicker with his release. Idk why he slowed it down?
     
  16. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig The Dude Abides Staff Member Moderator

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    Drew Hanlen is why
     
  17. Fez Von Savage

    Fez Von Savage スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    Mrs. Leonard is bringing the heat.
     
  18. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    Egad, so much teeth gnashing over our back up center (did we REALLY need another thread on this).

    Come on guys, Meyers is Meyers. We've all seen him for the past 6.25 seasons. Meyers 7.0 is definitely an improvement over the previous 6 releases, but he's still Meyers. He's averaging a very efficient 6 points and 5 rebounds per game in 12 MPG off the bench. That works out to 18.6 points and 14.0 reb per 36 minutes. His TRB% of 19.6 isn't just the best of his career, it's damn near elite. I'll gladly take that from my back up center, who is also leading the entire NBA in 3FG% at .529. The best thing about Meyers 7.0 is he seems to know his role, and have accepted his limitations. He's not trying to do things he can't. Like most good role players, he has his limitations, but he's focused on doing what he does best.

    One reason he's so efficient offensively is he only shoots when he's comfortable, in spite of people yelling at him to shoot more. Leave him be. If he's not comfortable taking the shot, he's probably not going to make it. In spite of the constant call for Meyers to shoot more 3-pointers, he actually leads the team in made 3FG/36 minutes. He's shooting enough to spread the floor, why maintaining a league-leading 3FG%. I'll take it.

    Anyone who thinks he's suddenly going to start averaging 20, or even 30 ppg is delusional. Seriously, James Harden currently leads the league scoring at exactly 30.0 ppg. Steph Curry is averaging 29.5 ppg, LeBron James is at 28.3 ppg and Kevin Durant is at 28.2 ppg. Those are all guys who have lead the league in scoring and won MVP awards (i. fucking e. NOT Meyers Leonard). Meyers has accepted his limitations. The OP needs to do the same.

    I know the OP is a gimmick poster, but it's gotten old (I'm starting to see Arial font in my sleep). Ironically, I think his non-stop trumpeting of all things Meyers has actually kept some of the so-called Meyers haters from embracing Meyers 7.0. He's nowhere near what the OP envisions him being, but what he is, is a solid back-up center who rebounds well, scores efficiently and sets the best screens on the team. BTW, did anyone else notice Dame was 3-13 from deep last night and all 3 of his makes came off Meyers screens? The first one, near the end of the 3rd quarter, Meyers flat out leveled Avery Bradley - and it was totally legal. He also set the screens on both of Dame's 3-pointers during his personal 7-point outburst that tied the score at 100. In any case, I like what Meyers 7.0 is bringing and I want to see it continue. No expanded role, no 9 to 15 points per half on swish3s. Just keep doing what you are doing and playing within yourself. He's actually a net positive when he's on the floor. Compared to Meyers 1.0 - 6.0, I'll gladly take that.

    Oh, but I do agree with the OP - no more brick3s for Nurk. Sheesh. The guy hit a couple in preseason and people were clamoring for him to be the next Brook Lopez (more like Brick Lopez). Nurk only shoots the 3 as an afterthought and when he does and misses, he just shrugs his shoulders as if to say, "You didn't expect me to make it, did you? Neither did I.".

    BNM
     
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  19. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    She is pretty hot. Meyers may never be an all star or win any awards (other than multiple FanFest MVPs), but he seems to be winning at life.

    BNM
     
  20. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    BTW, for anyone who thinks Meyers doesn't shoot enough 3-pointers:

    Seth Curry: 273 minutes - 17-37
    Meyers Leonard: 209 minutes - 18-34

    Does anyone here consider Seth shy about hoisting up shots? It seems like it's all he does.

    Per-36 minutes:

    upload_2018-11-26_10-35-21.png
    upload_2018-11-26_10-35-55.png

    Meyers Leonard is actually a higher volume shooter than Seth Curry in all ways, both makes and attempts, from 3-point range, from 2-point range and from the FT line. His volume is fine. Leave him alone. Yeah, I know he passes up some wide open 3s, but it often leads to a screen/handoff for a teammate, or at the very least, while Meyers is running through his what-to-do-next mental checklist, he's drawing the opposing center out of the paint and creating space for others.

    BNM
     

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