OFFICIAL Around The NBA Thread...... August

You thought correctly.

 

Try not to straw-man me.

Every player outside of maybe LeBron James "struggles" at some aspects of offense and some aspects of defense. Steph Curry is lousy at defending and scoring in the post. Guess he can't "help the team" (see, straw-manning is easy).

It just strikes me that he was overpraised last year and underpraised this year. And there are players (like T-Rob) who aren't NBA players, who do things that draw the eye and get praise, and others (like, say, Matt Bonner) who look kind of laughable but manage to be part of successful teams.

I must've missed the part where Olshey said that definitively. Or did he just communicate that to you personally?

He's not INCAPABLE of getting shots off all over the court.

He's fine in the pick and pop - something Ed was totally helpless at. And in fact, Ed was pretty helpless at post-up scoring too. Also, our Summer League team was great defensively, and he was a featured player, so clearly he can be part of a great defensive team (just like Zach Randolph for Memphis). Finally, do you really think Swanigan will be asked to be a leading scorer for us in the regular season the way he was in SL? So actually the little things he did well (set screens, move the ball, rebound) are much more important than his weaknesses (scoring in the post, moving his feet on D).

Count me among those who wanted Jordan Bell and were mystified by the pick. I have never changed my view that Bell would've been the better pick. But this post was about whether or not Kyle Kuzma should've been our pick, and I'm not convinced he should.

 

Armstrong, Harper, Kerr, Hodges, Longley, King... And probably lots more that don't come immediately to mind. Half that team was guys you wouldn't point to as average, let alone good, defenders. Yet like with Detlef in Seattle, they played good team defense in Chicago's scheme.

And yes, Pippen pretty much did play defense for 5. Jordan was pretty damn good at that end once he took defense seriously, but Pippen was the man, no question.

Analytics get it wrong far more than my eye test. They're a good supplement but never the ultimate answer you like to believe. Kids these days.

 

I never think analytics tell the whole story, but that team did have 2 great defenders and always had 2-3 other guys who did their job on defense. I think all of them were basically average or better. It may seem like they were worse than they were because teams tried to get them in match ups they liked as they didn’t want to go straight against Jordan / Pippen but I think it’s a stretch to say they were all bad defenders but somehow made one of the best defensive teams ever...

Obviously there were ‘bad’ defenders there but it wasn’t a lot and they didn’t play them together very often.

 

That whole narrative is a load of BS.

 

Now here’s an airport pic I took today that is finally in focus.
Maybe we’re bringing him in for camp?

 

Did he teach you anything?

 

No argument there. They weren't a team like either of the two championship Detroit runs, where pretty much everyone except Rip was an aggressive defensive presence. Chicago was more like the Heatles, with two exceptional defenders and everyone else fitting the scheme. Maybe Grant/Rodman is comparable to Bosh in that role.

You're being very generous if you consider those guys to be average defenders. That or you don't think much of the defense played by the average NBA dude. Add Kukoc to the list... That team was full of guys you'd love to isolate, but they covered all their bases. In a sense, I'm defending Rodman as one of the guys who helped cover for the weaker defenders, but I group him in with those that Pippen and Jordan covered for, more often that not.

Rodman was the only player I enjoyed watching on that Detroit team.

 

He was good in Hot Tub Time Machine.

 

I see your point. I know Scottie and MJ were great on defense and covered up for mistakes. I just think that the late 90’s version of that bulls team was some of the best defense the nba’s Ever seen and I guess I feel like it’s hard to believe that a team that good on defense was playing a bunch of bad defensive players.

In my opinion defensive analytics seem a ways behind the offensive ones. I see “defensive” stats all the time of guys and it’ll say they are bad on defense or good on defense and I’ll think, it doesn’t really seem right. I think it’s because defense is so reliant on team mates and schemes.

 

Your Photoshop skills are getting better.

 

I just want to say you're the only human I've ever heard make this argument.

IMO it doesn't hold water.

 

Which argument exactly? About Rodman or the other Bulls?

 

Malone vs Rodman (CHI):
https://www.basketball-reference.co...ennis Rodman&player_id2=rodmade01&idx=players

regular season head-to-head:
22 & 7, 0.438
36 & 15, 0.500
27 & 11, 0.556
35 & 11, 0.551
30 & 8, 0.667
34 & 9, 0.455
30 & 10, 1.000
18 & 10, 0.381
avg: 29.0 & 10.1, 0.569 (26.7/10.0 avg those 3 years)

playoff head-to-head:
23 & 15, 0.455
20 & 13, 0.300
37 & 10, 0.517
23 & 10, 0.474
19 & 7, 0.412
21 & 7, 0.467
21 & 14, 0.360
16 & 12, 0.313
22 & 3, 0.727
21 & 14, 0.476
39 & 9, 0.630
31 & 11, 0.579
avg: 24.4 & 10.4, 0.476 (~26/11 playoff avg those 2 years)

I don't see how anyone can paint a picture of Rodman being a great defender in Chicago, when he did a below average job against his main competitor during that period. (Feel free to run similar numbers for others such as Barkley, that was all the time I had.) The playoffs are Rodman's saving grace, with all but three of the games being a struggle for Malone. (The epitome of a lazy defender, only turning it on when it counts!) That's probably a big part of what people remember, with regular season play fading into the background. Even then, he barely held Malone below his playoff average.

 

Malone was in my view one of the greatest PFs to play the game....he respected Rodman....I think you've made your point handiman that you didn't like Rodman.....at this point you're beating a dead horse....my original post was that great players aren't exclusively offensive minded players...I mentioned 3 guys and it was in reference to Zach Collins....time to move on. I completely disagree about Rodman but that was not the talking point....I'm sure a lot of Bulls fans didn't like him either. I couldn't stand the Bulls..

 

Except that I said I did like him earlier in his career, when he cared about more facets of the game than just rebounding.

But hey, anything to avoid addressing the numbers I laid out, right?

 

AND SO IT BEGINS............

 

That tattoo made me grimace.