Sources: Bulls exploring Boozer-Bargnani Deal

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by Fastforward7, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. Fastforward7

    Fastforward7 JBB JustBBall Member

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  2. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The Chicago Bulls and Toronto Raptors have engaged in exploratory trade discussions on a deal that would swap the Bulls' Carlos Boozer for the Raptors' Andrea Bargnani, according to sources familiar with the discussions.

    Other players with smaller contracts would have to be added to the deal to make the salary-cap math work should talks indeed progress to a more serious level. But sources told ESPN.com on Thursday that both teams have considered the move.

    From Chicago's perspective, sources said, Bargnani's arrival could help address its glaring lack of 3-point shooting and brighten the overall look of its payroll, given the Italian forward makes $5 million less than Boozer this season.

    Despite his well-chronicled defensive deficiencies, Bargnani would figure to be an effective pick-and-roll partner for Derrick Rose once the point guard makes his expected return from knee surgery after the All-Star break.

    The biggest impediment to such a trade, sources said, is believed to be whether Toronto can realistically afford having both Rudy Gay and Boozer on its payroll beyond this season.

    The Raptors, who acquired Gay from Memphis last week, have been openly shopping Bargnani, who resumed the most disappointing season of his career Wednesday night after missing 26 games with an elbow injury.

    Although Toronto's desire to upgrade its front line is an open secret -- as confirmed by its long-running interest in trading for the Los Angeles Lakers' Pau Gasol before the forward's foot injury this week -- it's believed the luxury-tax implications of trading for Boozer ultimately could dissuade the Raptors from such a deal, even if Chicago proved willing.

    Read more http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...arlos-boozer-andrea-bargnani-swap-sources-say
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    N0ooooooooooooooo!

    Eat his contract, amnesty him.

    Bargs will eat pine until we dump him on someone who's a bigger sucker than we are, if one can be found.

    Pay for the fucking winner, dammit.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Looking into my crystal ball. It's kind of murky. I see FatJerry. I sense a rusty implement - a spoon or butter knife. And something about a nutsack.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I've been stewing on this most of the day.

    This move may be the last straw for me. I've been a loyal Bulls fan since the days they had another guy named Boozer (that'd be Bob, in the mid 1960s).

    This owner has made it a bitter pill to swallow to remain a fan. Growing up with teams I loved but never won championships was tough. The Cubbies had an owner who was more interested in the tax write off than putting a winner on the field. But they broadcast 150+ games, catered to the fans (especially shut ins), and certainly treated the players like family.

    I've met Reinsdorf, and the guy was an outright asshole in person. I am so thankful for those Jordan era bulls, but the treatment of the guys who won the games is typical of the asshole owner. Players don't win championships, organizations do! The organization hasn't won a championship. Not a one.

    Long in the tooth, but coming off a World Championship season, the organization drove away the greatest player the game has known, the greatest coach the game has known, and a top 50 all time player in Pippen. How on earth is it a good basketball decision to hire Tim Floyd and force PJax out?

    It outright sucked to see PJax winning championships on another team's bench. It outright sucked to see a 40-year-old Jordan still a top 15 player, but in a different team's uniform. It outright sucked to see Pippen play out of position at SF for Houston then lead Portland to a crazy good record when he became their starting PG. Those guys should have died of old age as Chicago Bulls. That's what CLASS organizations do.

    For the last 15 years, all I've seen from our owner is disdain for the sport, no effort to do anything designed other than to maximize profit, and pretty much a mutual disdain from most of the players in the rest of the league for our team. TMac wanted no part of this organization. More recently it was Wade, LeBron, and Bosh. Elton Brand was miserable here. WTF was the Ben Wallace no headband rule about? The guy wanted out quite badly at the end. LeBron surely saw that and wanted some of that action, eh? The Pistons took Wallace back, as good organizations do, and he retired a Piston.

    So Carlos Boozer is getting a shitload of money to play here. But the Bulls wanted him and he chose us. Unlike the other stars who knew better. His thanks has been a tone of buyers remorse, talk of amnesty, talk of nobody wants him and his contract (he sucks because he plays just 24 MPG), etc. Man up. Pay the man.

    I actually like defense, but when it's played by a Pippen or Jordan caliber player. Otherwise, stressing defense is the coward's way to compete. All the players have the athleticism to play defense. It takes hard work, but no special skill. But you can use near the whole :24 clock to slow the game down. You give opponents fewer possessions. If you can keep the score close and you have Ben Gordon to hit clutch shots and more importantly Free Throws, you have a chance to win. Win, but not dominate. In an 82 game season, the actually good teams are satisfied to let you kill yourself for a win that means little. Then they 1st round and out you when every game counts. And the games just aren't that fun to watch.

    Maybe if I actually saw a path to a championship. Instead of stockpiling talent, we are shedding it. When the Bulls let Asik walk rather than risk paying the LT three years from now, even guys who've long rooted for the Chairman's profits had a near come to Jesus moment.

    I actually like Foreman and Thibs. I've been thinking we lucked into Rose and maybe we can win a championship while maximizing profit. It's been a slim hope. All hope is just about dashed.

    All I know is I cannot root for Reinsdorf to maximize his profit.
     
  6. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please... I want to see Boozer still a Bull and Denny still a Bulls fan!
     
  7. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/print?id=11947

    Perhaps this will speak against a trade.
     
  8. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm in the distinct minority here in that I'm intrigued by the deal. I know Boozer has been better this season. I don't think it's real. He's still a stretch four without three point range or a quick release. That's fine for the regular season. In the playoffs his shots will disappear.

    Bargnani is talented. And he's one of those guys whose struggled to meet expectations while being stuck in bad situation. He needs a second chance and the Bulls would be a perfect place for him. Let's see if Thibs can teach him how to rebound and defend.

    The Bulls' off season plans seems to be centered on making the team cheaper and better suited for the playoffs. I think this move would be consistent with the latter.

    Transplant, where are you at with this rumored trade?
     
  9. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    some more...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-chicago-bulls-toronto-raptors-trade-20130207,0,1586359.story

     
  10. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    This is really all about John Lucas III?

    Now that's funny.
     
  11. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    I haven't followed Bargnani at all. I agree that this doesn't make us better now. But I'm sympathetic to the idea that Boozer may not be enough when push comes to shove on the big stage. But what good does committing to Bargnani do? He has some skills, enough to be drafted 1. Is the hope that Thibs can coach him up?

    I don't know. But I guess it doesn't happen. Still, Boozer is now on watch.
     
  12. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The very thought that my Chicago Bulls could put out a front line that features Andrea Bargnani and Vladimir Radmanovich makes me want to vomit bile.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Bargnani was drafted #1 in a really weak draft. In that draft, we picked LaMarcus Aldridge and traded him for the boneheaded Tyrus Thomas. Among the top 10 in that draft, only LMA, Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay went on to be regular contributors to the teams that drafted them.

    When we drafted LMA, I was stunned. We had a real need at PF and we drafted an actually good PF. Good at both ends of the floor, too. Traded him for Tyrus. Ugh.

    Bargnani was taken with the hope he'd be a Dirk like player. LOL at that.

    My take on Bargnani is that he's big but incredibly slow. His mobility is terrible. For a 7 footer, his career best rebounds per game is 6.2. We have a SG/SF who rebounds like that. His career .438 FG% is an indication of how much actual shooting we'd want him to do. As for 3pt shooting? .345, .296, and .309 the last three seasons. He isn't a guy I'd want taking a lot of 3's.

    This deal has Chandler for PJ Brown written all over it. A salary dump where we fans get the smelly end of the stick. Speaking of PJ Brown, I spent a year googling for pictures of him in a Bulls uniform with his feet actually even an inch off the ground. I failed. The only guy I ever saw him successfully guard was Bargnani, because all he had to do was stand next to him and be tall.

    If we were signing Bargnani to vet minimum to be a bench player, I wouldn't mind at all. To trade a guy Thibs thinks should have made the all-star team, who's been an all-star, who's been our starter for him - no thanks.

    The thought of tying up $14M and $15M of cap space the next two seasons on Bargnani and Kirk makes me want to vomit bile.
     
  14. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    He is shooting 31% in 3's. Averages almost 16 pts a game and under 5 boards a game. And the deal is suppose to be Robinson and Boozer for Andrea and JLIII. No way!

    Also rumor is Toronto wants Gasol.
     
  15. Fastforward7

    Fastforward7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yea this has to be a fake rumor. I like bargs cuz he got put in a really terrible situation in Tor wit the potential he showed. But hes like Brook Lopez, legit 7 footer that doesnt rebound well (remember Brook is only averaging like 7 boards this year). I think a change of scenery with a better coach would do good, its just that Chicago isnt that place. Not for boozer at least. Booz had 18 points last night and 3 boards (although Faried is to thank for that). Bargs had 13 and 3 against the Cs not hitting any of the 3 threes he attempted. Like previously stated hes also incredibly slow as well. I just dont like the trade altogether. We cant be that desperate to dump boozer that we'd trade him and nate for Bargs and JL3
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I remember watching Bill Cartwright play with the Knicks before he became a cripple. The guy grabbed about 8 rebounds per game, but you would never have called him a soft player. Cartwright was just outstanding and fierce.

    So it's not just weak rebounding numbers, it's being weak period.

    When played at C, Bargnani did actually get to the FT line 5 times a game. Woot!

    I do not get why we would want a guy who takes 20 shots to get 20 points. Not with Rose on the same team.

    I'd be OK with a guy who takes 20 to get 30.
     
  17. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Bargnani's rep as a big who sucks at rebounding certainly precedes him, but let's put his shortcoming in perspective.

    Among the 51 centers who are on a pace to play 500+ minutes, Bargnani ranks dead last in overall rebounding rate (% of missed shots that a player rebounds) at 7.8%. The next worst rebounding rate is 9.3% and belongs to Boris Diaw of the Spurs. Two things about this. First, Diaw's rebounding rate is nearly 20% better than Bargnani's. Second, Diaw is smaller than Luol Deng.

    Among NBA centers, Bargnani is an equal opportunity non-rebounder...he is dead last in both offensive rebounding percentage and defensive rebounding percentage.

    Pretty damned remarkable.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Diaw was a PG early in his career. Remarkable that he has played some at C at a decent level. Maybe not thus season - he's getting old...
     
  19. bullsger

    bullsger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/18090677-579/the-scowleys-there-are-reasons-the-bulls-should-keep-carlos-boozer.html

    Signed.
     
  20. bulls_with_booz

    bulls_with_booz We're Selfish

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    Would hate to see the Bulls trade Boozer, he's my favorite player on the team. Bargnani isn't bad and would fit well next to Noah, though.
     

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