Stifled Voices, Disillusioned Posters and the Death of a Community

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by ly_yng, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    That's what got bff in trouble. The would warn one poster for one thing, but would have people in moderator positions such as Keaf, Rawse, etc. doing the same exact things.
     
  2. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    I find it instructive that other than an earlier post in this thread by Denny (#91), this is the first reference to the new forum. Why are only the admins of this site discussing that new forum? This thread is not about the new forum. It is about how this site could be improved. This is a great board, but everything in this world can be improved upon, and historically the businesses that are most likely to fail are those that don't listen to their customers. Why does it matter whether this site was delisted at the other site? Ghoti is not in charge of that. How does it impact the issues that have been raised in this thread?

    Again, I don't intend to cause trouble. I don't have any issues with Denny or Mike. However, when I see that something I like can be improved upon, I like to try to do something about it.

    When I first joined this site, I discovered that some of the available smileys were culturally or racially insensitive, to say the least. I brought it to Denny's attention, and he thanked me, and told me that he would remove them. Now, though, I don't see that cooperative spirit between the posters and the admins. It seems that it is more likely that a complaint or an issue will be turned around, and an argument will ensue. I don't know why that is.

    I have made a lot of friends here, and I intend to stick around and interact with them. But it saddens me somewhat that many of my friends cannot be here with me any more.
     
  3. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Bah... it is unreasonable that I'd ask you guys that were on the staff to speak up and talk about issues before they come to a head and resolve them ahead of time.

    Classy stuff.
     
  4. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    ...
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    As opposed to being subtly hostile and spreading misinformation. Interesting.
     
  6. Colonel Ronan

    Colonel Ronan Continue...?

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    This is boring.
     
  7. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Fair questions You say the point of this thread is to talk about how to improve S2. I'm cool with that. I love that, in fact. So ok, folks are going to voice their opinions about how it can be improved. And the staff of this site, not just the admins, need to react to that, sort out what's legitimate complaint and where we have room to improve, and what's not.

    1. It's not only the admins who are discussing the new forum. If you look back at my exchange with ghoti, you'll see that he actually did inferentially bring up the NDF board before I did (back in post #109). He says that was only done as a response to valid complaints that weren't listened to. Huh? Ghoti's a freaking commissioner here. Those guys are supposed to be next in authority on the site to the admins. You probably didn't know we've got a whole forum for just the commissioners and the admins to interact, plan things, and talk about big important stuff. You know how many posts there are there with ghoti lodging his displeasure or disagreement? Zero. We've got staff forums where the mods are included too, and he's had next to nothing to say there either.

    Which really gets to the point of this thread even more. Again... what's legitimate complaint and what's not. Ghoti is saying there wasn't any choice, and these guys were forced to protest publicly, then forced to go set up another forum.

    I say it's pretty strange for someone to say that when they had
    1) been in a position of power and authority on the staff and
    2) done little to nothing over the past few months on the subjects he's now saying

    2. Now why does it matter that ND delinked us? Well, not very nice of you guys, is it? I think Denny's point in bringing up the ND forums originally back in post #91 was just to say that we're trying to do what's best for our posters and the right thing in general. It'd be pretty easy to say "hey, those guys de-linked us, so let's de-link them". I wonder how I'd be received over there if I posted the sort of things some of those guys were/are posting over here. Is ghoti in charge there? No, but what he's saying here, in the context of that, isn't all that cool. As you put it, if you've got friends at both places, why not have an open exchange where everyone's linked up?

    3. How does it impact the issues in this thread? Well, just as with your first question, ghoti's justifying the new board as a response to not having any other options. I think it's more general, but more simple than that. A couple of guys had an axe to grind with a particular admin or two, and are now doing it, and what site wouldn't like to increase traffic with its own boards if a couple of qualified folks will do most of the work. More power to them, though I wish they stuck with us. But those reasons are pretty difference what ghoti and other dissenters are suggesting here.

    I'm glad you're sticking around, and I always enjoy reading your posts, even if you're incredibly naively optimistic about the prospects of government regulation of well, pretty much anything. I see the problem you're getting at too, but I also see that, unfortunately, some folks just aren't willing to be pleased.

    Is the cooperative spirit gone? I don't know, but "a cooperative spirit" is exactly what I think we're getting at with our vague and unfair rule that posters have "honorable intent".

    Do we, as the admins still have cooperative spirit or honorable intent? I do feel like us guys who run the site are making the attempt. Not to point here exclusively, but just look at this godawful fucking mess of a thread. How many other sites would leave this up for all the world to see? And there's several others scattered around the Nets board that would have been locked and boxed on any forum I've ever been on. Ghoti and several other folks would have been demodded quite a while ago. Compared to pretty much everywhere, we're extraordinarily tolerant of dissent and open with what we're trying to do, and this mess, for better or worse, is further evidence of that.

    So ghoti's right... take a look at what we're saying in this thread. Am I ticked off occasionally? Yeah. Who isn't ticked off when they're getting badmouthed and their project they've poured countless hours into getting hosed. But I'm also here making the attempt to have a reasonable conversation about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
  8. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I was gonna post again in this thread but I'm not sober and I've had both my cell phone and my Xbox 360 stop working within the last 20 minutes.

    Let's take a moment of silence to contemplate what's truly important in life. Like my cell phone and my Xbox 360.

    :)

    Ed O.
     
    ly_yng likes this.
  9. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    One thing that should be made clear is that they did not create the Nets Daily board because they have an axe to grind. Their posting style on here may have been the result of an axe to grind, but the creation of that board was just out of just needing a place to post, not to grind an axe with this site. They're banned from this site, so obviously they couldn't post here. They're banned at bbf, so they can't post there. Not sure about RealGM, but I think some of them might be banned their too. So they went out and explored a bunch of options of places to post.

    Creating a message board on a site they were all highly involved with was one of the most logical solutions they could reach. Their community was fractured as a result of bannings and other dealings. They are a community, just like the Blazers Board here. They move in a group. The new community provided a place they all could be happy with, thus you see old administrators like cpawfan (why is he not an admin here again?), and current community moderator type guys like ghoti going there. They're community is rebuilt in full over there.

    Now obviously, guys like ghoti and some of the other posters coming back here are just stirring up shit. It's no different how a bunch of posters on the Blazers board kept stirring up shit on bbf after they came here. It's fun to do. It's hard to build up a good community of great minded posters about a subject (as evidenced by this site's and many before it's failure to get prosperous forums for every team). So when that community got threatened, of course they're going to attack what threatened it. It's animalistic.

    Ignoring that they are just here to stir up shit, there is a valid point they make, and that is, this site just lost an entire team forum, and is down to only one really truly prospering team forum, that being the Blazers. That is a problem, and ideas should becoming up with to address that, because obviously, the current path of the ship is not a good one.
     
  10. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    The only really active forum right now is the Blazers forum. The Lakers forum gets activity here and there.

    I don't understand how you guys expect to build a community when you continue to alienate your top posters. Most of the forums on this site are pretty much dead, and you just lost a great Nets community.
     
  11. JFizzleRaider

    JFizzleRaider Sad Panda Global Moderator

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    So what's the real reason for War_Poet's ban anyway? I think it's been asked a million times, but I haven't seen a clear answer. Was it because he made a deal?
     
  12. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    if they are now banned at three different message boards, wouldn't that probably just reinforce the idea that their actions are inappropriate and that they should have changed them or be banned?
     
  13. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    If fiction were fact, the library would have to reorganize their books. You should know better than to accept sloth as a source.
     
  14. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    There aren't other active team forums because there aren't people in charge that know how to build communities and low level staff aren't given the proper training on how to do that. There is a lot of middle level staff that were given roles by me that were roles that they could grow into with proper guidance. One thing I'm sorry about is that I'm no longer here for them, but nobody should have to put up with the amount of crap I had to put up with after everything I did.
     
  15. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    Just wondering, what happened? Why did you leave? Nobody ever gave us a straight answer. I'm pretty sure most of the staff knows there's something flawed with the management of this forum, or at least feels that way.
     
  16. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Mike, this site lost a ton when your real life took you away from for several months, but you are coming off as an asshat in this thread.

    Improving this site would require that people that incapable of admitting they are wrong doing such a basic act. It would also require people really comprehending what those with complaints are saying. As an example, there is nothing but defensive rhetoric in this thread and that is counter-productive to developing solutions.

    The site's logo should be Nero fiddling.
     
  17. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    I spent the majority of mast last active month here arguing about the direction of the site and the problems I had with what other people wanted to do. All of this while undergoing an extremely difficult personal situation, yet this site was a far bigger source of stress in my life.

    I was also told to stay out of the mod forum and staff affairs and that somebody else knew better than I how to build the forums and that they would be rocket fuel for the site.

    I was absolutely disgusted by people that I considered friends and a couple of people that helped me at a dark time in my life.
     
  18. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

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    Please don't go and spread your fiction and go and embarrass yourself. No need to lie.

    Pegs is not only banned, but they deleted his account, something I've never seen on that board: http://www.basketballforum.com/comm...having-different-opinion-than-moderators.html

    mynetsforlife may not be banned anymore, but he was at the very least suspended (they put up Banned even for suspensions there) when he was getting in spats with Kitty.
     
  19. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    The quoted post should be ignored because it isn't based in reality.
     
  20. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    I'm sorry to hear what happened. :(

    Can't say I'm all too surprised though.
     

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