The "I'm bored, let's come up with some Foyle/Fish/Dun/Murph trade scenarios" thread

The "I'm bored, let's come up with some Foyle/Fish/Dun/Murph trade scenarios" thread

Here's my ultra risky scenario and it involves the help of our friend former Warriors GM Dave Twardzick, currently the acting GM of the Orlando Magic.

<font color="Red">MAY BE INVALID DUE TO MURPHY'S BYC1, FOYLE/FISH'S BYC2 NOT KICKING IN</font>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Warriors trade Troy Murphy, Adonal Foyle, Derek Fisher
Warriors receive Kelvin Cato, Doug Christie, Jameer Nelson

Magic trade Kelvin Cato, Doug Christie, Jameer Nelson
Magic receive Troy Murphy, Adonal Foyle, Derek Fisher</div>
Why this is a good trade for the Warriors:



<ul>
[*]Money issue. It allows better salary flexibility to retain Dunleavy/Biedrins/Zarko/Pietrus futher down the line and avoids having to dump good players to avoid the luxury tax later on.
[*]The defense couldn't possibly be worse under Diogu at the 4 than with Troy Murphy, although it has yet to be seen whether Diogu is a nba starter or not.
[*]We rent a solid center for one year
[*]We get Jameer Nelson, a solid playmaker with the similar strengthy build to Fisher, but with way more quickness (like a Speedy Claxton)
[*]We can try out Taft or Monta Ellis if it turns out they're kicking butt in the minors
[*]Diogu would get major minutes since we don't have anything close to a true power forward and could possibly contend for rookie of the year if he's proving to be a world beater. Wishful thinking
[*]Twardzick owes us anyway
[/list]
Why this is a bad trade for the Warriors:

<ul>
[*]We practically give away a 15/10 type of player who can hit from anywhere on the court and will only get better. The prime disastisfaction being that he doesn't play much defense, doesn't score inside, doesn't appear to mesh well with Dunleavy on the floor and doesn't look to pass the ball much.
[*]We give away the franchise's all time leading shotblocker and a community leader
[*]We lose backup point guard veteran experience and potential clutch performance in the playoffs and locker room prescence
[*]We may not make the playoffs without Murph/Dfish/Foyle
[*]Biedrins would be forced to start and he might not be ready for starter's minutes given his inexperience, physical immaturity, and foul trouble.
[*]Diogu or Zarko would have to start right away and neither of them could be starters that could make up the difference that Troy Murphy brought to the table.
[*]We get wife-beaten Doug Christie to play backup point if Baron goes down
[*]Tears down chemistry with the liquidation of two of the starting five.
[*]Jameer might want to start and we would probably lose him if the focus was on Pietrus/Zarko/Biedrins/Diogu/Dunleavy. Too many players that could command large money if they are as good as we think they are.
[/list]Why this is a good trade for the Magic:

<ul>
[*]They are getting talent back
[*]They are getting good characters to surround their rookies with
[*]They improve rebounding and scoring ability
[*]Versatility: If Dwight Howard is a F/C, Foyle and Murphy can be placed around him depending on whether they need a defensive 4 or 5 or an 4 or 5 that can shoot the ball and rebound
[*]Assuming Grant Hill is used as cap relief the next season after or he retires, there will be enough dough to re-sign Dwight Howard.
[/list]Why this is a bad trade for the Magic:

<ul>
[*]5th highest payroll in the league
[*]Foyle + Fish's contracts last for 4 to 5 more years. Murphy is 6.
[*]The Magic would want a shooting guard for an expiring contract shooting guard, unless the idea is to let Deshawn Stevenson, Derek Fisher or Steve Francis play the two.
[*]They already have drafted Fran Vasquez who is a F/C that would join them somewhere down the road because of the buyout issue with his former team. Dwight Howard/Troy Murphy/Adonal Foyle/ Fran Vasquez could be pretty crowded. If the Magic drafted Gerald Green this would make more sense, but drafting wasn't one of Twardzick's strong points... which makes it even more suspect if he would be willing to take back Foyle.
[/list]http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/orlando.htm
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=magi...ov=st&type=lgns

 

For Magic I would say its a cap killer for a long time, so if their gm is looking to be a decent team in 3+ years they shouldn't do it.

For the Warriors I think its a great trade

PG:Baron Davis/Nelson
SG:J-Rich/Christie
SF:Christie/Dunleavy/Pietrus
PF:Ike/Someone to be acquired through FA?
C:Kato/Taft

I think with that trade they would be a decent playoff team if they meshed. They kind of would need a PF to replace Murphy's hole though.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">For Magic I would say its a cap killer for a long time, so if their gm is looking to be a decent team in 3+ years they shouldn't do it.
</div> Yeah it is a cap killer, but they do get good talent and some role models. I don't think Orlando will be a decent team in 3+ years anyway. I mean, as long as Twardzick is the GM, the Magic will not be going anywhere. He's the Orlando equivalent of Rob Babcock x 2.

Christie would probably be used as an inactive player btw since Dun is still the starter and Pietrus is the guy that will see heavy minutes at 2/3 as the defensive stopper and guy that can bring some scoring punch off the bench as a sixth man.

 

C'mon,it's freakin' Twardzik. We don't need to be so kind,we should be able to plunder and loot. I'm not sure about the details of Cato + Christie's contracts,which may be a plus-or not. Cato and Christie seem a bit beyond their best years. I may be the optimist but i expect we would see both Murphy and Foyle next year having a better overall game. If so the tradeoff of Murph-Foyle for Cato could be brutal. We'd give 2 starters to get 3 bench dudes. I figure Christie does not squeeze J Rich at G

Dumpster swaps kind of depress me. Can someone cook up a deal that has us get Tyson Chandler,and Jannero Pargo from the Bulls for Foyle,Fish,Dunleavy,Ellis and some future picks? They can toss in some expired/deceased contract or other trash. Considering that Curry plays pretty poor D,Foyle can be a plus there. We have 3 rd 1 picks in 06 + 07 and if we get a key "keeper" like Chandler,could put 2 of them in a package,though I'd hope one would swing a deal.

 

It seems like the Bulls are in love with Tyson Chandler so I doubt it. We already may have our long, energetic defenive minded 7'0 dude in Biedrins. The suggested trade would give away one starter, because neither Fish nor Foyle are really starters, but overpaid supporting characters. I can't think of a single team that would be willing to take on big contracts, unless the coach is involved and has some pull with winning now mentality, or the GM is either Isiah, Babcock or Twardzick. There's a lakers scenario that works with Fish/Foyle for Mihm, Atkins, and Vlade Divac. They probably need a backup center though, so Vlade or Mihm stays and it's not like Andrew Bynum could step in right away and be the "Shaq like presence" the Lakers need. He's only 17 or so. I doubt PJ really wants Fisher that badly given where he's at in his career. Also it's doubtful Murphy and Foyle could fit within that system of play. So that probably doesn't work.

I know it's probably better to ride out the season with what we got and then try to find opportunities rather than be impatient and start unloading people, but who knows... we might predict one of these trades that could come true like the trade for Baron Davis that actually happened, but it didn't involve giving up anyone super great. So I guess we should aim higher and hope for Jermaine O'neil or somebody

I guess, above all, chemistry is the most important. But what is the point of chemistry if the scenario we're talking about is that we can't keep the other players most important to the future of the team like Pietrus/Zarko/Biedrins because of these mammoth contracts.

 

What exactly is the trade status for Murphy, F and F? In other words, I believe that Murphy is a base year contract, right? So we can only take back half of his upcoming salary (around $3.6 m, I think).

Are there any trade restrictions on F or F? I assume not, they are in the second year of contracts, and they aren't extended rookie contracts.

I also assume that Murphy started his new contract as of July 1. Anyone know if I'm accurate?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting fansince75:</div><div class="quote_post">What exactly is the trade status for Murphy, F and F? In other words, I believe that Murphy is a base year contract, right? So we can only take back half of his upcoming salary (around $3.6 m, I think).

Are there any trade restrictions on F or F? I assume not, they are in the second year of contracts, and they aren't extended rookie contracts.

I also assume that Murphy started his new contract as of July 1. Anyone know if I'm accurate?</div>
I'm not sure if RealGM blocks any trade because of the "poison pill" status of Murphy's BYC1 status that kicks in at a later date. All I know is it works for the scenarios talked about.

 

Why is it I seem to be drawn to the most convoluted cba rules?

I think that Murphy was a poison pill last season (that is, his new contract had not kicked in, but was part of his trade value calculation). I think that Murphy's rookie contract ended July 1, officially. He should be into his new contract now...Again, I think this is correct (and I think realGM may be a few days behind..)

That still makes him a BYC1 this season, which means that the W's can only take back 50% of this years salary (which should be something like 7.65 m, so the W's can take back around 3.7...I don't know how the 125% factors into this).

Anyway, what I was really getting at, we might be able to trade Murphy to a team that is under the cap, as long as they can fit his first year salary, and we take back half his salary...this allows us to get rid of a long term huge contract, and get back a smaller contract and still some talent.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting fansince75:</div><div class="quote_post">Why is it I seem to be drawn to the most convoluted cba rules?

I think that Murphy was a poison pill last season (that is, his new contract had not kicked in, but was part of his trade value calculation). I think that Murphy's rookie contract ended July 1, officially. He should be into his new contract now...Again, I think this is correct (and I think realGM may be a few days behind..)

That still makes him a BYC1 this season, which means that the W's can only take back 50% of this years salary (which should be something like 7.65 m, so the W's can take back around 3.7...I don't know how the 125% factors into this).

Anyway, what I was really getting at, we might be able to trade Murphy to a team that is under the cap, as long as they can fit his first year salary, and we take back half his salary...this allows us to get rid of a long term huge contract, and get back a smaller contract and still some talent.</div>
Oh yeah that's what I meant, I wasn't sure if Murphy was still in his old rook contract or if his new contract is getting factored in. I think details are important, good call on that.

I just double checked and it still says "poison pill", so RealGM tradechecker is behind. It's not a perfect tool, but it at least gives a better ballpark figure than calculating it ourselves. To tell you the truth, I don't know when it kicks in, but there probably won't be teams willing to take it on before it does anyway.

Good call, good call. I'll try to find some trade scenarios where a team would absolutely covet our players and the trade makes sense for both teams. But it will probably be next to impossible... It's fun to discuss though especially whether Murphy or Dunleavy stays or how we should dump Fisher/Foyle for decent talent. Better to act now before we regret it later I always say. That's why I'm hoping Mullin doesn't lock up Dunleavy at the beginning of the offseason or we're sure to lose some young key talent that better fits the current squad.

 

Yeah... forget it, it's next to impossible if we think about the teams with cap that don't want to blow it on either of Fisher/Foyle/Murphy. I think at this point Fish/Foyle would be BYC2 and Murphy BYC1.

I did find a Foyle for Maciej Lampe scenario, though. Wee! (works for last season) That would definitely undermine the trades of Baron and Mashburn for caproom.

Oh well I'll come up with more trades in principle that could work later on when I get bored during the season. I don't think I'd make any trades now considering Baron likes the team and there's chemistry, but it's fun to discuss and... I was bored.

 

while you're at it, see if you can get KG

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">while you're at it, see if you can get KG </div>
Murph, Foyle, Dunleavy for Garnett. I dunno! LOL

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah... forget it, it's next to impossible if we think about the teams with cap that don't want to blow it on either of Fisher/Foyle/Murphy. I think at this point Fish/Foyle would be BYC2 and Murphy BYC1.</div>

From what I've read, contracts end/begin on July 1. The new CBA may have changed things a little, David Stern hasn't sent me a copy yet. Another thing I read, on Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/), BYC2 restrictions ended with contracts signed before July 1, 2001 (news to me), so I assume F and F have no special restrictions at this point.

So Murphy should be BYC. F and F should fall within normal trading rules, that is, we can take back up to 125% + $100k of their current year salary.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't want to trade Murphy, I think Fisher has the worst contract, Foyle next worst.

But Murphy has trade value (he can play, and he's not horribly overpaid, just somewhat...plus he's young, and locked up through what should be his prime). The W's are going to be in big cap/lux tax trouble in a few years, they just drafted two 4's (let's face it, Murph isn't really a 5), and they can get back a smaller contract for him. But to do this, he has to be traded this year (while he is BYC), to a team with cap room. Teams with cap room will be spending it asap, so this is a window that will shut by late July...

Final note, if any of the CBA stuff above sounds wrong, please chime in, because I'm not an expert, I just read the faq's online.

 

Twardzik hasn't changed. They needed a backup 4 and they went with the consesus and drafted Vazquez. With Grant Hill on his last legs, I would have drafted Gerald Green or even Granger. They already have their franchise guy in Howard, they could have gotten a cheap veteran to play backup 4 and gotten BAP.

 

Thanks fansince75, I'll read over it and see what it has to say a bit later.

Also my thoughts exactly regarding Twardzick, UD. He has to be the dumbest GM in the league, so it probably takes somebody equally dumb or dumber just to give him a job. So... trades with Orlando don't have to make much sense. I think the only thing Twardzick did well was take a gamble on Dwight Howard and go for Jameer Nelson. I don't even know if that was his decision to make alone because at the time, he was only serving as a talent scout (believe it or not, same dude that drafted Smith/Fuller and all the other "safe" picks). He was basically doing what Mitch Richmond is doing for the Warriors now. I bet Twardzick still doesn't know a fair deal in a trade when he sees one.

Change of subject: If it were possible to land a disgruntled KG and assuming Jrich was easy to trade, would you guys trade him for KG?

 

Trade Derek Fisher to the LA Lakers for Vlade Divac.
I would normal hate to trade to a division rival but the Lakers need a point guard and Fisher knows their offense.
The W's get rid of his contract and Divac can either retire or is on the books for one year. The W's could then use a portion of the mid level to sign B. Knight until Ellis is ready.

 

I like that trade, but not sure if Brevin wants to be a backup when he was doing great for his situation as a starter. Just imagine if the Bobcats had no Brevin Knight, they would probably be a lot worse. All I know is I had Brevin in my fantasy squad, he was the top assists guy for me. All I also had Jason Kidd and Baron Davis.

 

To expand on the above trade would you trade Dunn and Fisher to the Lakers for Vlade Divac, Caron Butler and Jumaine Jones?
The Lakers would get two starters at the point and the three. The W's would get cap relief, better defense and more playing time for Pietrus. I think Butler and Murphy together would be a much better fit. Butler has an inside game for a SF and Murphy has an outside shot and rebounding. Its backwards but it could work.
I have been obsessive about getting Butler for some reason.

 

I think the real question is would the lakers do it? We get a good expiring contract in Vlade Divac to play around with and he is a backup center with a shot touch and passing ability (also new friend for Zarko to converse with, just hope he doesn't learn flopping lessons), Caron Butler (a good trade piece and player with potential who can defend, score some, and benefit from Baron), and Jumaine Jones (explosive journeyman who is aggressive on defense and can pop in shots from the corner)

I like the trade very much. Lakers would just get a bloated contract in Fisher, who knows PJ's system, and Dunleavy, to add chemistry to the Laker's team and can still be effective without having to score. Would those contracts work?