The INDISPUTABLE Truth About Brett Favre's Big Mouth

Discussion in 'NFC North' started by DolfanDale, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    He needs to SHUT IT and stay out of Jevon Walker's financial affairs. I'm guessing that Favre is the Packers' highest paid player and one of the highest paid in the NFL. He needs to understand when his teammates him hindering them from getting a raise, though they will still make considerably less than him, it will cause resentment. The TRUTH is that his teammates are going to starting seeing him less as a teammate and more as a front office mole and stooge. That's not going to help the Packers.

    I don't want to hear any steaming pile of "honor your contract" bull either. In 2002, the Packers cut Antonio Freeman because they didn't want to "honor" the contract they had with Freeman. They felt that he should accept less pay because of his declining numbers. The TRUTH is that honor is a two way street, baby, like it or not. The TRUTH is that people who whine about players who hold out, but say nothing about teams cutting players before the end of their contracts are participating in hypocrisy. That hypocrisy is born of jealousy. I'll never understand why people who work hard for their money hate to see anyone else, who works hard, get ahead just because they aren't. It's okay if a fat cat owner is making money hand over fist, but let an athlete, who knows that the average football career is three years, try to make the most of the short time he has and he's a selfish creep.

    Don't get me wrong. Favre is my favorite quarterback of all time after Bob Griese and Dan Marino, but he's wrong for meddling in the financial affairs of his teammates. There are those that will try to dispute the INDISPUTABLE Truth that I have spoken, but their arguments, fueled by jealousy, will do nothing but annoy like squalling babies crying for greener tundra. I call to the football brethren, who are bound by jealousy, turn now and let unity previal. If we are ever going to beat THE MAN, it will be a team effort. So sayeth, DolfanDale!
     
  2. Pats37

    Pats37 The Next Big Thing

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    Brett just knows what it takes to win and knows his chances are running out...not many teams who have an guy like walker..who can't be replaced by anyone on that team..hold out usually don't find the promise land...Brett's just trying to have one more year in the sun...I really don't blame him or walker. I don't mind walker holding out for money cause he is now putting up numbers that warrant it and he is still in his rookie contract but I also don't mind teams wanting to reduce a players salary or cut them because they are not performing to the money thay are making...it keeps them hungry and keeps the league ultra competitve...the way it should be. Other sports where guys are guaranteed their money you see injuries that last forever and you see laziness through out the league (EX. THE NBA). There have been countless players in MLB to land that big deal and then dissapear but still get their 10 million a year...which is gross IMO. I'm sorry but I agree with the control owners have over contracts...its one of the main reasons it is the best league out there.
     
  3. Cowboy71

    Cowboy71 Dallas Cowboys *********

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    I guess the difference is that players know going in that their contract is not guaranteed. Most know the signing bonus and the first year or two are the most likely ones to be filled. After that, expect to renegotiate or be cut/traded/etc.

    We've been in this for 10+ years now, so its no surprise to anyone what the owners/GMs choose to do. With signing bonuses, I have no problem with that.

    I have a huge problem with the TO situation more than the Walker situation. TO's salary this year cannot be the only thing he looks at when he just agreed to a big signing bonus the year before.

    I don't have a problem if a player quietly asks management in the early offseason to take a look a putting together a new contract. I understand that sometimes it isn't as much as making more money as putting additional years together.

    To make it a public scene, I think you have to be clearly underpaid. I think Walker is a good player, but after only one 1,000-yard season (which was clearly a good one), I'm not sure it constitutes a holdout.

    If Walker wants to negotiate another contract without a signing bonus, I would be interested in seeing that pursued. However, he pocketed several millions just for signing his last contract, and so far he is just an 800-yd per season guy so far. Potential is more, yes. Well maybe....not a lot of ex-Packer WRs have gone to another team to put up great numbers.

    I think Favre thinks he needs to be the team leader and say something. That said, I think he is coming on a little strong.

    P.S. Why do all these type of stories have Rosenhaus or the Postons behind them?
     
  4. panthersare#1

    panthersare#1 The GM

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    Brett Favre's cap value is 9,534,333
    Javon Walkers cap value is 1,626,500

    That is a HUGE difference, He is the 49th highest paid WR, and he went to the Pro Bowl. He deserves more money but Brett Favre interview looked like he hated Javon
     
  5. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    Pats37's point about athletes becoming lazy and not playing with "injuries" certainly has merit. I'm just saying that if a person is going to hang the "honor your contract" albatross around a players' neck, to not hold the franchise to the same standard is hypocritical. If you accept a team being able to cut or renegotiate player's contracts when they aren't performing, then you have to accept that there will be times when improving players may have to hold out.

    I think Cowboy71 makes a good point when he brings up the TO situation. I believe owners, agents and players all understand that sports contracts are just agreements that are made to be renegotiated later, however I think there are unwritten rules and parameters to what is acceptable. Playing one year and holding out, like TO, is just rediculous. I really believe that TO is hurting his marketability because, as talented as he is, who is really going to want to take him on knowing that he may hold out at the drop of the hat. Players do have to use some common sense when deciding the best time to hold out.

    Take a look at the numbers in Panthers post. I have to wonder how many Packer players are looking at Brett's salary and resent the fact that he is helping to prevent other players from getting raises when he makes ten times what they do. Of course, none of those players will speak up because Favre is a god in Green Bay and to oppose him is political suicide. Favre has always been a great team leader, but he's undermining his own leadership by being the company stooge.
     
  6. porky88

    porky88 King of Kings

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    I would say Favre wants Walker in camp. He know all he has a run or 2 left in him. He needs Walker. Granted Walker is underpaid but he has 2 years left on his contract. I am sure if he produces like he did last year. The Pack would give him another contract. Favre deserves to be one of the highest paid Packers but he has taken more than one pay cut to free up cap for us to get some players. I think Favre just wanted to get Walker thinking about a possible one last run which Favre needs him for. I don't think he hates Walker. Remember Rosehaus and Walker brought this public instead of keeping it under doors. So Favre brought it public to with his statement. It's one thing to want more money but it's another thing to just not show up for work. When you want a raise do you just not show up to work until you get your way. I doubt that you ask and if you don't get it you keep working and sometime you finally get your raise. I have no problem with Walker wanting more money. I have a problem with him not coming to work.
     
  7. panthersare#1

    panthersare#1 The GM

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    In the next CBA they should get a rule for secured contracts. That would solve all of this. Players could get gurantted contracts and dont have to worry about getting cut
     
  8. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    I guess you've never heard of labor disputes and strikes. Sometimes people don't go to work until management listens to their demands and meets some of them. In most work enviroments, people aren't subject to injury. When I go to work later, if a co-worker blindsides me and blows out my knee, I'm going to sue. However, even if that were to happen, it probably wouldn't affect my ability to do my job and cost me future income. Walker has to hold out because an injury could eliminate any leverage that he has to get a raise. Who says that Walker will get a new contract with another good year? How many players *cough*ShaunAlexander*cough* don't get the contracts they deserve because of loop holes like the franchise tag? As for Favre giving up money, he's making 10 MILLION freaking dollars a year. He can afford to give a little of that up.
     
  9. Cowboy71

    Cowboy71 Dallas Cowboys *********

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    You could argue about what Favre should be saying or whether he should say anything at all. If I were Walker, I would be a little upset at Favre, but at the same point, I would probably understand that Brett wants to win and considers me a vital part of that goal. Maybe Favre is being selfish because he knows Walker is key.

    Green Bay decided at some point to pay Brett $9 million (generally) this year. Right or wrong, that was their decision. Sure, he could turn it down and say he doesn't want that much. If Green Bay is in a salary cap crunch, he could renegotiate to give Walker and the others more. Last I checked, Green Bay wasn't looking too bad with the cap, so I dont think Favre's salary has much to do with Walkers.

    As far as Walker is concerned, I would look at it this way. Forget about who it is or what the potential is. As a general rule, I would like to see more than 1 good season in 3 before I put some more big money into a player. If he has another great year, that will be two in a row. At that time, I would consider locking him up longer term, even though he would still have another year left.

    For me, it comes down to two things:

    1. What would New England do? They seem to have things figured out. Doubtful that they would cave if they weren't already interested.

    2. Does Walker have the leverage? In my opinion, a little. He had a really good season last year. Does that put him among the leagues best? Not yet. Is he better than the 49th receiver. Most definitely. Does he deserve to be a little higher? Probably. Of course, just because someone else is stupid enough to pay a lesser player more doesn't make it your fault.

    3. What was the expectation for Walker when he signed? Did Green Bay and Javon expect the stats to happen like they did? A 6th round pick that is towards the top statistically over a period of time probably deserves a renegotiation. A 1st or 2nd round pick that is payed to perform accordingly, and do so, deserve less attention from me.

    I don't blame Walker for asking or even demanding a new contract. I'm just not sure I agree with a holdout part. I guess I don't blame Favre for saying he should be in camp either. I wouldn't be vocal about it....but I'm not Brett Favre either.
     
  10. DolfanDale

    DolfanDale Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'>For me, it comes down to two things:

    1. What would New England do? They seem to have things figured out. Doubtful that they would cave if they weren't already interested.

    2. Does Walker have the leverage? In my opinion, a little. He had a really good season last year. Does that put him among the leagues best? Not yet. Is he better than the 49th receiver. Most definitely. Does he deserve to be a little higher? Probably. Of course, just because someone else is stupid enough to pay a lesser player more doesn't make it your fault.

    3. What was the expectation for Walker when he signed? Did Green Bay and Javon expect the stats to happen like they did? A 6th round pick that is towards the top statistically over a period of time probably deserves a renegotiation. A 1st or 2nd round pick that is payed to perform accordingly, and do so, deserve less attention from me.

    I don't blame Walker for asking or even demanding a new contract. I'm just not sure I agree with a holdout part. I guess I don't blame Favre for saying he should be in camp either. I wouldn't be vocal about it....but I'm not Brett Favre either.</div>

    Very good points, Cowboy71, but when it comes down to two things, you might be able to use a little help from a math tutor. [​IMG]
     
  11. porky88

    porky88 King of Kings

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'>You could argue about what Favre should be saying or whether he should say anything at all. If I were Walker, I would be a little upset at Favre, but at the same point, I would probably understand that Brett wants to win and considers me a vital part of that goal. Maybe Favre is being selfish because he knows Walker is key.

    Green Bay decided at some point to pay Brett $9 million (generally) this year. Right or wrong, that was their decision. Sure, he could turn it down and say he doesn't want that much. If Green Bay is in a salary cap crunch, he could renegotiate to give Walker and the others more. Last I checked, Green Bay wasn't looking too bad with the cap, so I dont think Favre's salary has much to do with Walkers.

    As far as Walker is concerned, I would look at it this way. Forget about who it is or what the potential is. As a general rule, I would like to see more than 1 good season in 3 before I put some more big money into a player. If he has another great year, that will be two in a row. At that time, I would consider locking him up longer term, even though he would still have another year left.

    For me, it comes down to two things:

    1. What would New England do? They seem to have things figured out. Doubtful that they would cave if they weren't already interested.

    2. Does Walker have the leverage? In my opinion, a little. He had a really good season last year. Does that put him among the leagues best? Not yet. Is he better than the 49th receiver. Most definitely. Does he deserve to be a little higher? Probably. Of course, just because someone else is stupid enough to pay a lesser player more doesn't make it your fault.

    3. What was the expectation for Walker when he signed? Did Green Bay and Javon expect the stats to happen like they did? A 6th round pick that is towards the top statistically over a period of time probably deserves a renegotiation. A 1st or 2nd round pick that is payed to perform accordingly, and do so, deserve less attention from me.

    I don't blame Walker for asking or even demanding a new contract. I'm just not sure I agree with a holdout part. I guess I don't blame Favre for saying he should be in camp either. I wouldn't be vocal about it....but I'm not Brett Favre either.</div>


    Great post.

    I think of it this way. Favre had the right to say it like he said. Walker and Rosenhaus went public with it.

    I look at Grady Jackson. Same agent. Same problem. Yet he hasn't come out real public like on Rome is Burning. He has done it in GB and stands by it. Walker is a great WR but no one in the history of the Green Bay Packers have gotten a new contract with 2 or more years left on it. Except for ONE Person and he had no intention of holding out and had a MVP with him already. Favre is the only one. He had 2 years left after the 1995 season ended. I wish Walker would handle it like Chad Johnson. C. Johnson wanted a new deal and his agent(not sure who it is) said well you need to hold out until you get it. He comes out and says I want more money but I am here to win football games and work regardless. That is how it should be handled.

    Either way I don't think Walker or TO have a chance of getting a new contract this year.
     
  12. Cowboy71

    Cowboy71 Dallas Cowboys *********

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'> For me, it comes down to two things:

    1. What would New England do? They seem to have things figured out. Doubtful that they would cave if they weren't already interested.

    2. Does Walker have the leverage? In my opinion, a little. He had a really good season last year. Does that put him among the leagues best? Not yet. Is he better than the 49th receiver. Most definitely. Does he deserve to be a little higher? Probably. Of course, just because someone else is stupid enough to pay a lesser player more doesn't make it your fault.

    3. What was the expectation for Walker when he signed? Did Green Bay and Javon expect the stats to happen like they did? A 6th round pick that is towards the top statistically over a period of time probably deserves a renegotiation. A 1st or 2nd round pick that is payed to perform accordingly, and do so, deserve less attention from me.

    I don't blame Walker for asking or even demanding a new contract. I'm just not sure I agree with a holdout part. I guess I don't blame Favre for saying he should be in camp either. I wouldn't be vocal about it....but I'm not Brett Favre either.</div>

    Very good points, Cowboy71, but when it comes down to two things, you might be able to use a little help from a math tutor. [​IMG]</div>

    DD, I got one word for you: Get off my back. Just kiddin. Yeah, I added one. Sad part is, I had a stats major in college and am an analyst now. Ugh!
     
  13. FLORIDA PACKER

    FLORIDA PACKER nfl-*****s member

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    Basically Walker has underperformed until this year he has had exactly one good year, if he comes back and produces this year I'll be all for giving him a new contract but when we have guys like Amahn Green who are coming to practice every day showing he deserves a new contract it makes Grady and Walker look like dush bags. Grady cannot even get an extension until next year due to some sort of stipulation in the contract he signed last season so he needs to just shut up and play. Favre is totally right in showing leadership for this team, its not right that these guys hold out for money when Favre came in and played for them during all of the personal trauma he's gone through, he was there for them and now they need to be there for him.
     
  14. Cowboy71

    Cowboy71 Dallas Cowboys *********

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FLORIDA PACKER)</div><div class='quotemain'>Grady cannot even get an extension until next year due to some sort of stipulation in the contract he signed last season so he needs to just shut up and play.</div>

    But to DD's point, this kind of verbage in a contract is worthless.
     
  15. Bearsfan1

    Bearsfan1 2 Time Defending FF Champion

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    Coming up with way to twist this into sack record comment about farve. If anyone has any suggestions please posts and i will put best one in my sig for the week
     
  16. porky88

    porky88 King of Kings

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Coming up with way to twist this into sack record comment about farve. If anyone has any suggestions please posts and i will put best one in my sig for the week</div>

    WOW someone lives in the past.
     
  17. Pack Attack

    Pack Attack The KISS Army

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    Hey guys, guess what? It's a free country! Brett Favre is voicing his OPINION! Just like all of you are doing in this thread... I say good for him for sticking to his guns.

    I hope Walker sits this year. If he does, guess what? He'll have the same contract next year. And the year after. Until he plays, he's locked into that contract. If the Packers decide they don't care, they can basically "forcibly retire him."
     
  18. porky88

    porky88 King of Kings

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey guys, guess what? It's a free country! Brett Favre is voicing his OPINION! Just like all of you are doing in this thread... I say good for him for sticking to his guns.

    I hope Walker sits this year. If he does, guess what? He'll have the same contract next year. And the year after. Until he plays, he's locked into that contract. If the Packers decide they don't care, they can basically "forcibly retire him."</div>

    Well retire. No Walker would end up sitting 2 years and then find himself a team at the age of 28.

    I think Walker is either going to report or get traded for a 2nd rnd pick. For some reason He thinks he can get the deal. Intresting since GB never Budges on Hold outs. Rosenhaus is giving horrible advice. Neither Walker or Jackson will get more money. They are going to loose Money. Wouldn't they have learned from Mike McKenzie who was in the same situation. He has come out on the bottom. We traded him to New Orleans and he didn't get any new deal yet. He still payed us over a lot of money in fines and we went to the playoffs so are players got playoff bonus and he didn't. So my question to Javon Walker and Grady Jackson would be what makes this a different scenrio. Neither will get the contract and I believe this is Green Bays last year in the playoffs or contention. The Pack will fall next season unless Walker and Jackson come around. I don't think it happens. I think Jackson might but Walker might not ever play for us again.
     
  19. panthersare#1

    panthersare#1 The GM

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    Without Grady Jackson people are gonna run all over the packs defense.
     
  20. FLORIDA PACKER

    FLORIDA PACKER nfl-*****s member

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    There is a slight posibillity that the GRAVE DIGGER! could return if we are in need, He is reportdely in the best shape he's been in since his injury. He'd be a good tutor/back up/stop gap until either Grady returns or a young guy steps up.

    Then Miami is possibly asking for 4th rounder for that Zgonia guy who from what iv'e heard is a pretty solid Tackle.
     

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