The Ringer: Are We Sure Gronk Isn’t Right?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by e_blazer, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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  2. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    The first sentence under the title pisses me off. Breaking up the back court or not is a legitimate argument but including Dame as someone fans are "rallying" to see traded is fucking stupid.

    I get that there are a few people who want to trade both but to me breaking up the back court involves only trading one of the two, otherwise you are tearing it down. Is there anyone who still thinks CJ should be the one kept to build around? I also understand that Dame could potentially bring back more in a trade but that isn't rallying to want him traded.
     
  3. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  4. Labinot41

    Labinot41 Well-Known Member

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  5. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I don’t have a problem with the idea of trading CJ in theory. The countering question I’d ask is,
    “Are we sure that this is the time to trade him?”

    First, have we seen the Blazers put enough good shooters and interior scorers around them yet to know how well they would work on a contending team? What if the perimeter 3 point shooters and Collins show signs of becoming that this season?

    Second, is CJ’s value at its peak so that the Blazers will maximize the return for giving up a star player? I’d say the perception around the league is at a low point regarding CJ after the playoffs last year. Why sell low? Maybe he has a big season this year.

    Third, what’s the rush? Does anyone think that there is a player we could likely get for CJ who moves the Blazers into contending status this year? Next summer Olshey will have a bit more wiggle room to make other trades as the albatross contracts of ET, Leonard and Harkless become ending contacts. Why not wait until then to consider this move?
     
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  6. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Sure. Like Dame, he likes wood thrown on the fire.
     
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  7. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Exactly. Great post.
     
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  8. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Lillard and CJ should break up?!?

    I didn't even know they were dating.
     
  9. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  10. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    Lillard should never be traded - EVER. The mere mention of it is pure blasphemy.

    BNM
     
  11. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    After you get past the obvious and tired history "lesson", the author makes some valid points, not about trading Dame or C.J., but about the cause of POR's problems in the playoffs and how to address them.

    It's not news to anyone that Neil overspent during the Summer of 2016, or that POR got swept in the playoffs. Those topics have been beaten to death. But quotes like this provide insight that there may be other ways to "fix" the Blazers than trading one of their two best players:

    "Stotts doesn’t have the spacing threats, the self-shot creators, or the paint options to thrive without sharing the ball. The problem is—yes, we’re not to the root of the problem yet—he doesn’t have passers, either."

    I think these are issues Neil specifically tried to address in the off season. Unfortunately, he had 1.99 hands tied behind his back due to his own previous overspending. Given his limited options, he brought it more shooters and self-shot creators, and hopefully more passing, as well.

    Seth Curry will always be in his brother's shadow, but prior to his injury, he was looking like a legitimate NBA 6th man/3rd guard. Obviously the sample size is MUCH smaller, but Seth's career 3FG% of .432 barely trails Steph's .436. His brother is widely regarded as the best shooter in the history of the game. That's a tough act to follow, but when it comes to shooting from distance, little brother doesn't suck. His career TS% of .600 is better than anyone else on the Blazers roster (Dame = .570, C.J. = .552).

    Curry definitely helps address POR's need for more shooters around Dame and C.J., but he doesn't really address the self-shot creation or passing issues. He'll be better than either Connaughton or Crabbe was in the "shooter off the bench" role, but that's basically what he is.

    For passing and self-shot creation we will need to rely on Baldwin and Trent Jr. Baldwin was a classic Olshey value signing - a former mid-first round pick that his original team gave up on much too quickly. He's always had the physical gifts to excel, but he seems to really be learning the game. I rant on and on about POR's lack of a proven big man coach, but this staff has a great record of developing guards. I know we've mostly seen Baldwin against G League and Summer League "talent", but his progress has been impressive. He's learning from the best how to run an offense, when to set up his teammates vs. when to look for his own shot. Throw in his length and defensive intensity and he's a great third guard to team with Dame and C.J.

    Offensively, Trent Jr. reminds me of a cross between Travis Outlaw and Wes Matthews. In terms of size and athleticism, he falls squarely between those two former Blazers. The similarity is the ability to create his own shot without possessing a great handle. Outlaw had that 1-dribble pull up jump shot that he could get off against anyone and Wes developed a 1-dribble step back that was money (before the injury). Trent Jr. already possesses a similar ability to get his shot off in spite of not possessing elite ball handling skills. He's 19 and will only get better. I think he'll end up being a steal where he was picked. He also has the confidence to take (and make) big shots and the ability to get to the line. Defensively, he'll never be as good on the perimeter as pre-injury Wes, but he has the size and upper body strength to physically "body up" weaker opponents.

    "the Blazers are betting on youngish players blossoming"

    This is true - especially Zach Collins, but also Baldwin, Trent Jr. and eventually Simons. The good news is we have multiple young players that have the potential to blossom and didn't have to tank to get them. And guess what, if we decide to blow it up, we'll be even more reliant on young players for far longer - 5 to 10 years to get back to where we are now depending on how well we draft. So, I'm not sure how relying on young players to blossom is a strike against us. I'm actually excited to see these young guys develop.

    I would absolutely trade C.J. in a package for a Jimmy Butler/Paul George/Kawhi Leonard type of 2-way player, but short of that, I think continuing to build around one of the best backcourts in the game isn't a bad plan. Adding Nurk in the middle (and resigning him to a team friendly contract) REALLY helped our team defense. The emergence of Zach Collins will further shore that up, as will hopefully Wade Baldwin taking Shabazz Napier's minutes. Last season proved that even with the defensive limitations of Dame and C.J., POR can be a top 10 defense. Now, they just need to get back to being a top 10 offense.

    The new guys will help, but I think Stotts needs to also make better use of the assets he has. I've beaten this to death, but more Nurk in the high post (as he was used during Nurk fever) will take some of the pressure off of Dame and C.J. and create easy baskets for non-self shot creators like Harkless and Aminu. Last season Stotts seemed to fall victim to the "conventional wisdom" that you need to pound the ball into your young big man early and often to get him involved and motivated to play defense and rebound. I don't think the "conventional wisdom" applies to Nurk. It certainly didn't during Nurk Fever. Sure, get Nurk involved in the offense early, but as a facilitator, not by parking his butt on the low block and pounding the ball into him. That only puts pressure on Nurk to go 1-on-1 and try to beat his man. We don't need more isos, we need fewer. This is not Nurk at his best, especially against other starting centers. It leads to a lot of hurried, forced, weak, out of control, low percentage flip shots and turnovers. On the other hand, when Nurk has a smaller player on him in the post, he slows down, uses his size and strength to maximum advantage and is virtually unstoppable. Save the Nurk post ups for when the other team ends up caught in a switch on the pick and roll, against opposing 2nd string big men, or when the other team goes small. In other words, don't try to force things, take advantage of what the defense gives you.

    So yeah, we're relying on some young guys to emerge (other than GSW and HOU, who isn't?), but even with limited options available, Olshey has attempted to address the weaknesses the author described. Now it's up to Stotts to use these new assets as well as make better use of the returning ones.

    BNM
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  12. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad read. There are some valid points. The premise of any trade does nothing as long as we follow the same path that he team is on now.
     
  13. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  14. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Nice analysis. I always look forward to your epistles.
     
  15. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    Did you just call me Dippy?

    Epistle to Dippy

    I actually have that album...

    BNM
     
  16. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    I wouldn't trade either one of them.
     
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  17. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Nope, just always enjoy reading the Blazers’ Gospel According to BNM. ;)
     
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  18. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I had that album when it came out...now have the boxed 3 disc set that includes most of the songs if not all
     
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  19. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post.
     
  20. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Goo Goo Barabajagal!
     
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