Politics Turning taters into tots (Biden vs Trump, 2020 election!)

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more on that. However find a candidate to lead with Campaign Finance Reform and you will find a DOA candidate.
     
  2. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I guess and I know that this isnt popular here, my thought is the only fix at this point is a viable third party to rise. I know it spells doom for a few years but I legitimately wished that Bernie, AOC, some of the other ‘Democrats’ that seem to also hate democrats, would brand themselves as a third party. Maybe there is just ‘too much’ money and they would quickly get consumed by corruption too, but I think a third party would make the two existing parties restructure a lot. I think it could give more opportunities for more voices to be heard. Again though its not the fact there are two parties that I dislike what the two party system has become, its what those two parties have become and that there seems to be almost no reason for them to change it.
    Im sure there are other solutions, but from my POV those two parties are fairly rotten at this point, and I honestly have heard very little at this point to make me think yeah I should be excited about either candidate.
    Can the change come without moving to a third party, or expanding parties? Maybe but right now I just dont really see any reason to believe it will.
     
  3. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Corporate American and wealthy donors will give just as much money to a popular 3rd party candidate if they think it will get their needs and desires addressed. And 3rd party candidates will accept that money because of the expense it takes to breakthrough the two party system.

    This 3rd party answer you keep talking about is overly simplistic and rather naive.
     
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  4. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah creating a third viable party is simplistic except for the giant obstacle course created in front of it by the two political groups that have essentially made it a bi-opoly. Yes a third party has a chance for corruption to. Never said otherwise.
    A third viable party that can challenge the R’s and D’s potentially does a lot to change our political atmosphere though.

    I never said or implied a third party is the answer that fixes it all, in fact I said you’ll have issues with 1 or 20 or any between.

    My answer is not though keep voting for the same two crappy, corrupt political parties and wonder why the country got to where it’s currently at. Which seems to be the only solution most are providing. You guys act like before Trump every thing was just peachy, we didnt have racism, we didnt have corruption in the government. Republicans and Democrats alike werent war mongering for oil, or that the class gap wasnt already getting bigger and bigger. Weve had 100+ years of these same two rival gangs who continuously, especially over the last 40-50 years find ways to divide and conquer the people of the US, and to exploit people, and to sale our stuff to countries that arent our friends. So we want to go back to the Obama / Biden days because weve somehow told ourselves that was the golden age of Bombing the middle east and were comfortable with that.

    once we get back there we’ll fix the problems of our corrupt political parties, by watching them screw us over, and vote for the same people in 4 years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sitting on the sidelines and waiting for a magic fairy to come make everything wonderful and perfect is always an option.

    barfo
     
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  6. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Please explain why Biden is a close friend of the Obamas.
     
  7. GoBlazersGo

    GoBlazersGo Well-Known Member

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    Politics
     
  8. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    How does a 3rd, 4th or 5th party change anything. You are under the belief that all politicians are corrupt so wouldn't these people switching to run under some new party be corrupt as well or do they all of a sudden become non corrupt because they run under the new party that you support? I will say that I am a bit shocked how hard you are going in on defending trump though.
     
  9. Shaboid

    Shaboid Well-Known Member

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    How has nobody brought up this one specific word? LOBBYISTS
     
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  10. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    So, what you oppose to are a bunch of people coming together and working together in a compromise because they did not believe in Bernie's vision - and you mask it as 'back room dealing' - that's actually democracy in action. I am sorry, but if a bunch of candidates believe that they would lose individually, but can cause change to work closer to their beliefs and congregate around a single candidate working together - that's what the system is supposed to do - find a compromise that most people can work with.

    This is a fantasy world you want to create - people will talk about the candidates, always have and always will - because it is important to them - which is why the media exists and why it will continue to be consumed and why it will continue to be influenced. The correct answer is to adjust to system to work fairly by limiting campaign finance and creating a completely separate authority to oversee that - as long as the free for all exists - people will bend the rules as much as they can to gain an advantage. That's all living creatures trait - and this is an election for living beings.

    Every two parties will morph into something of that nature - it's not these 2 specific parties, it is the rules and human nature. People just want to be, and power always wants to retain it's power. So, the correct answers are term limits, better campaign finance rules and independent overseeing authority. Changing the 2 parties to 3, or 2 different parties will eventually end with the same kind of influence, only it will be among x number of parties instead of y, and the people at these parties will try to concentrate their power like the current parties.

    There also have to have some kind of rules about being lobbyists after the term limits are reached - maybe you can only work as a government employee for a term before you can become a lobbyist or something smarter - but like all systems, you want to retain as much institutional knowledge while allow new forces to come through the system to invigorate it - so that's not going to be an obvious solution and it will have to be some kind of a compromise (like everything else in life).

    I believe that you are upset at the symptoms, instead of looking for a solution.
     
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  11. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    And just how is Biden able to cheat?
     
  12. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Do you really think Obama is the conniving sort?
     
  13. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Goes hand in hand with campaign finance reform. The unspoken issue in DC. NO politician wants to touch it because its a death sentence. Why?

    Because no matter how much politicians try to BS us that they are different, they aren't. Their hand is out and they want it filled just the same as every other politician. And if someone breaks that line, the rest of them take that person down with a quickness.

    Get the money out of politics and then we might see more honest politicians start surfacing. Until then, its simple a system to enable the selfish and greedy.

    If we want to fix anything politically, we must first remove the money.
     
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  14. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Okay, which party is for eliminating excess money and which is for allowing unlimited donations?
     
  15. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes.
     
  16. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Never defended Trump but I know how hard it is to take the partisan blinders off so I understand why you can't see that.
     
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  17. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter? They both are allowed contributions that are used to jockey for votes regarding legislature. This alone makes it easily corruptable.


    https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/


    This is what most Americans want.....

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-big-donors-have-greater-political-influence/

    Yet Neither party will address it or the majority of this countries concern.

    This isn't about party preference Lanny, It's about getting the corruption out of politics, regardless of the party.
     
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  18. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    What's funny, it is you that must not realize that you are indeed defending trump. What else are you going to call it? It's always someone says something negative about trump and you often come back pushing the narrative that Biden and/or the democrats are corrupt to. That's essentially defending trump.
     
  19. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I am upset that people know how crappy these two parties are, that they know how corrupt they are. They don't even really hide it that much anymore. Yet people STILL vote for the same old group. Cause the democrats and republicans tell them to. It doesn't just happen with the presidential candidates. It happens every election cycle for most local and up elections. Almost everyone knows these two groups have no one's best interest in mind other than own, and yet the tribalistic nature is like well, still gonna vote for the democrat, or still going to vote for the republican. Then on the rare occasion they leave, they immediately jump to well I guess I'm on the other team now.

    Sorry, your version of the media is the fantasy. They talk about the candidates they get told to talk about, not because it's important to them but because of clicks, views, donors. The mainstream media in the US (and probably everywhere too at this point), exists to propagandize.

    I have given a lot of answers as to a way that I think could lead to at least a change. I never said it was a broad stroke solution that will fix it all.
    It's funny though that you think that I'm not looking for a solution when most of the people here seem to think that continuing to just do the same all vote for D's or R's is the solution. Cause solutions always come when you just keep doing the same things that haven't worked. I'm at least saying try something new. What's your solution? Vote for a 40ish year politician that's had 40 years to get us here?
     
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  20. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Trying to talk politics with most Trump haters is futile.....

    No matter what you say., its all "defending Trump"

    When in reality all the other person does is put Trump down even when asked about topical discussions that don't have anything to do with Trump.


    Wish I could just put all the blame of all my problems on the leader I don't like.

    @SlyPokerDog I Blame you for ALL of S2's issues(kidding sly)

    Because based on the logic of some, you are our leader here, so you are responsible for ALL issues here, regardless of whether you created, were involved or even knew nothing about it.

    Its all your fault, because.. well the S2 logic says its so.


    I get it. Its much easier to say to someone else. He fucked it up, he should fix it.

    Instead of just working hard to try to fix it.

    Hypcritical2020 here we are!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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