Who's more dominant at their sport: Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt?

I just watched Bolt absolutely destroy his competition and set new Olympic and World records at the 100 m. The scary thing though, is that he was slowing down and celebrating for the last 15 meters of the race. That's the reason why I'm inclined to choose Bolt. This isn't meant to downplay Phelps, because the man's an incredible athlete in his own right. But he's also been challenged in every race and has had to pull out some miraculous performances to keep his streak alive (eg: last night's extra half stroke against Cavic). I've watched Bolt for about a year now and I've yet to see him truly challenged by his competitors yet. In these Olympics it seems like he's coasted through every race. And the scary thing is he keeps breaking records. I mean the distance between him and the rest of the competition is enormous. I can't even begin to imagine how fast he could run if he was legitimately challenged for all 100 meters of a race.

 

Usain Bolt for me, that was simply awesome. I think he's the start of a new breed of sprinters - tall but still agile. Recently sprinters have tended to be not particularly tall; not short either but definitely not tall. Bolt is tall but maintains an extraordinary foot speed, so no-one can touch him. He has not sprinted for more than 80 or so metres in any race in the Olympics, and I guess he'll breeze through the 200 just as easily as he did the 100 and might well break another record. Don't get me wrong, Phelps is awesome, but he has very nearly lost in some of his races (and didn't do that well in one of the relays - he lead off but didn't finish his leg in first, iirc) but Bolt hasn't really been challenged.

 

Bolt does how many events? You are hanging on Phelps' worst events, why not use his best to compare?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 16 2008, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bolt does how many events? You are hanging on Phelps' worst events, why not use his best to compare?</div>
That's the obvious difficulty in comparison. I'm trying to summarize Phelps' performance in all his events, though. There's no doubt he's dominated. But has he dominated to the extent that Bolt has? I don't think so, but I would definitely consider an opposing argument.

 

The question wasn't "who wins the most events?" it was "who's more dominant at their sport?". Michael Phelps can look like he might lose in his sport. Usain Bolt doesn't. Therefore Bolt is more dominant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Usain Bolt for me, that was simply awesome. I think he's the start of a new breed of sprinters - tall but still agile. Recently sprinters have tended to be not particularly tall; not short either but definitely not tall. Bolt is tall but maintains an extraordinary foot speed, so no-one can touch him. He has not sprinted for more than 80 or so metres in any race in the Olympics, and I guess he'll breeze through the 200 just as easily as he did the 100 and might well break another record. Don't get me wrong, Phelps is awesome, but he has very nearly lost in some of his races (and didn't do that well in one of the relays - he lead off but didn't finish his leg in first, iirc) but Bolt hasn't really been challenged.</div>

Phelps won by more than 2 seconds in the 400M medley.

He won by almost 2 seconds in the 200 M free.

In the 4 x 200 M free relay, Phelps swam the first leg and was first to the wall in that leg by about 2.5 seconds.

He won by more than 2.5 seconds in the 200 M IM.

He has set 6 world records in 7 events, albeit in the new, fast suits and in a particularly fast pool (and with his kick-ass dolphin kick). It's still impressive.

And he's done all this by swimming two races a day on most days. And he has only had about an hour of rest between some of those races on multiple occasions.

It's Phelps. Seven gold medals speaks for itself.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The question wasn't "who wins the most events?" it was "who's more dominant at their sport?". Michael Phelps can look like he might lose in his sport. Usain Bolt doesn't. Therefore Bolt is more dominant.</div>


Phelps swims more events. Of course you are picking at his events that he was challenged. When you do 8 events, even if you win them all, of course there will be a couple events where you are challenged.

Why don't you compare his 2 most dominant events where he isn't challenged to compare to Bolt's?

 

It's still not quite the same as Bolt, who can just jog half the race and still win by a large margin. He could have probably run 9.63 had he not put the brakes on so early, which would have been an unprecedented World Record. And anyway, I'm not saying Phelps isn't dominant, he's just not as dominant as Bolt, in my book.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Aug 16 2008, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Usain Bolt for me, that was simply awesome. I think he's the start of a new breed of sprinters - tall but still agile. Recently sprinters have tended to be not particularly tall; not short either but definitely not tall. Bolt is tall but maintains an extraordinary foot speed, so no-one can touch him. He has not sprinted for more than 80 or so metres in any race in the Olympics, and I guess he'll breeze through the 200 just as easily as he did the 100 and might well break another record. Don't get me wrong, Phelps is awesome, but he has very nearly lost in some of his races (and didn't do that well in one of the relays - he lead off but didn't finish his leg in first, iirc) but Bolt hasn't really been challenged.</div>

Phelps won by more than 2 seconds in the 400M medley.

He won by almost 2 seconds in the 200 M free.

In the 4 x 200 M free relay, Phelps swam the first leg and was first to the wall in that leg by about 2.5 seconds.

He won by more than 2.5 seconds in the 200 M IM.

He has set 6 world records in 7 events, albeit in the new, fast suits and in a particularly fast pool (and with his kick-ass dolphin kick). It's still impressive.

And he's done all this by swimming two races a day on most days. And he has only had about an hour of rest between some of those races on multiple occasions.

It's Phelps. Seven gold medals speaks for itself.
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I'm not talking about who's accomplished more or been more impressive. Phelps clearly has. His chase for 8 golds far eclipses anything Bolt could accomplish in one event.

However I do think that in that one event, Bolt dominated his competition far more than Phelps has in any of his. He beat his competition by 2 one hundredths of a second, which is long distance in the 100 m. He was racing with the wind against him (I don't think its that important, but you did mention event conditions). And he broke the Olympic and World records (the latter of which was already held by him), despite the fact that he wasn't even racing for the last 15 meters of the race. He's killed the competition in these Olympics and I've yet to even see him try for a full race. That's really what sets him apart in my mind. After watching that race, I was equally in awe and frustrated with him (thinking about how much more he could've broken the record by).

I just realized that a lot of Americans might not have seen the race yet because of NBC's coverage. Not sure if its true, but this thread might've been premature if it is.

 

Are the sports you are referring to "swimming" and "running" or are they "swimming" and "the 100m sprint"?

Bolt will be more dominant when he wins gold in the 100m, 200m, 400m, long jump, triple jump, 110 hurdles, 400m hurdles, 4x100 relay and 4x400 relay and races in all the heats for the individual events.

There are also several events where Phelps hasn't lost in many years. If he entered only those races, he could shut it down and celebrate halfway through just like Bolt did. No one has any chance of beating him in these events. He does not in any way "look like he might lose".

All I can determine from this thread is that there is little to no understanding of what Phelps accomplished.

 

By two one hundreths Chutney means two tenths

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 16 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>However I do think that in that one event, Bolt dominated his competition far more than Phelps has in any of his.</div>

I don't agree with this. Phelps has been doing exactly what Bolt did today for years. That's the only reason he can be physically exhausted and still beat his competition by wide margins. If Phelps only entered one race (say, the 200IM) he could grow out his leg hair and wear a party hat and still destroy everyone.

 

Phelps is the most dominant and its not even close.

He's a legend already, probably top 5 Olympian of all time. Arguably top 3.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 16 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Aug 16 2008, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Usain Bolt for me, that was simply awesome. I think he's the start of a new breed of sprinters - tall but still agile. Recently sprinters have tended to be not particularly tall; not short either but definitely not tall. Bolt is tall but maintains an extraordinary foot speed, so no-one can touch him. He has not sprinted for more than 80 or so metres in any race in the Olympics, and I guess he'll breeze through the 200 just as easily as he did the 100 and might well break another record. Don't get me wrong, Phelps is awesome, but he has very nearly lost in some of his races (and didn't do that well in one of the relays - he lead off but didn't finish his leg in first, iirc) but Bolt hasn't really been challenged.</div>

Phelps won by more than 2 seconds in the 400M medley.

He won by almost 2 seconds in the 200 M free.

In the 4 x 200 M free relay, Phelps swam the first leg and was first to the wall in that leg by about 2.5 seconds.

He won by more than 2.5 seconds in the 200 M IM.

He has set 6 world records in 7 events, albeit in the new, fast suits and in a particularly fast pool (and with his kick-ass dolphin kick). It's still impressive.

And he's done all this by swimming two races a day on most days. And he has only had about an hour of rest between some of those races on multiple occasions.

It's Phelps. Seven gold medals speaks for itself.
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I'm not talking about who's accomplished more or been more impressive. Phelps clearly has. His chase for 8 golds far eclipses anything Bolt could accomplish in one event.

However I do think that in that one event, Bolt dominated his competition far more than Phelps has in any of his. He beat his competition by 2 one hundredths of a second, which is long distance in the 100 m. He was racing with the wind against him (I don't think its that important, but you did mention event conditions). And he broke the Olympic and World records (the latter of which was already held by him), despite the fact that he wasn't even racing for the last 15 meters of the race. He's killed the competition in these Olympics and I've yet to even see him try for a full race. That's really what sets him apart in my mind. After watching that race, I was equally in awe and frustrated with him (thinking about how much more he could've broken the record by).

I just realized that a lot of Americans might not have seen the race yet because of NBC's coverage. Not sure if its true, but this thread might've been premature if it is.
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You said "who is more dominant in his sport?" Phelps has won 7 gold medals this Olympics alone in his sport. If he raced only one event he would destroy his competition more than he already has. Besides, even with all the races Phelps has been in this year, he has still broken world records by almost a body length. That is insane in swimming. Insane. I really don't see how this is an argument.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The question wasn't "who wins the most events?" it was "who's more dominant at their sport?". Michael Phelps can look like he might lose in his sport. Usain Bolt doesn't. Therefore Bolt is more dominant.</div>

That's because Phelps is swimming more than anybody else at the Olympics. He will have 17 swims under his belt when all is said and done. Of course there are times when it might look like he'll lose. There are also times when he wins by more than a body length. Why didn't you mention those?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 16 2008, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>By two one hundreths Chutney means two tenths </div>

two one hundreths = .02
two tenths = .2
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I know, he finished in 9.69 seconds and the next guy finished in 9.89


I think this largely depends of both your view of what we mean by "their sport" and exactly what we mean by "dominant".

To me, "their sport" means all events into which they enter and "dominant" means winning and winning comfortably. So for me, it has to be Bolt, but depending on your own personal opinions of exactly what these two aspects mean, you might think otherwise.

In addition, he is entering the 200m and 4x100m, and will probably win gold in both, possibly comfortably.

When you talk about the fact that Bolt should enter the long jump, triple jump and hurdles, that's a completely different kettle of fish. That would be like saying Phelps should do well in diving. And before you say something about the fact that he competes across different strokes, he also competes in the medley which incorporates all of them so they are combined within his training etc. If there were as many medals for sprinting as there were for short to medium length sprinting, I have no doubt that Bolt would win just as many golds as Phelps.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/a...ics/7565608.stm

Michael Johnson's two cents

 

I have to go with Phelps. He is so dominant in so many areas of his sport. It's pretty tough to pcik between the two though, considering all that Bolt does at the moment are the 100 and the 200 (my events ), and Phelps is going to be finishing his eighth event somtime soon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Aug 16 2008, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When you talk about the fact that Bolt should enter the long jump, triple jump and hurdles, that's a completely different kettle of fish. That would be like saying Phelps should do well in diving.</div>

Many dominant speed athletes in history won gold medals in hurdles and long jump as well as sprinting. Bolt doesn't do that. (If he did, he likely wouldn't be able to run 9.69.) That is not anywhere near the same as Phelps competing in a completely different sport like diving.

In fact, these skills are the best comparison to Phelps' proficiency in all four swimming strokes. Bolt is a one trick pony. He only dominates one group of athletes, not four.