I go to this Packer forum and if you thrash Favre even for last night your the spawn of the devil to some of these people. Fan make a excuses and now one is trying to convince me Favre is as good as Palmer but just doesn't have the talent around him. Don't get me wrong, Favre was a great QB but he's not in his prime and I'm not sure if he can carry a team on his back like he use to. We'll know this year but Favre is certainly not one of the 5 best QB's in football. Palmer is. So those who now "hate" Favre because of the last year in a half. I can understand. I'd probably hate him to if I wasn't a Packer fan especially with the Green and Gold glasses with the little #4's on that some people where.
Prior to Favre beating my Pats in the SB I was of the opinion that Brett was overrated. Obviously he proved me wrong, but now he's basically reverted back to his younger days. Honestly I would be embarrased to be a Cheesehead these days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Honestly I would be embarrased to be a Cheesehead these days.</div> Every team has its ups and downs. I've been loyal to the Packers for almost 30 years now. A bad year or two by a hall of fame QB isn't going to embarrass me in the slightest. It's a marathon, not a sprint. The Pack will be great again some day. They've got a good foundation to build on.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Honestly I would be embarrased to be a Cheesehead these days.</div> Every team has its ups and downs. I've been loyal to the Packers for almost 30 years now. A bad year or two by a hall of fame QB isn't going to embarrass me in the slightest. It's a marathon, not a sprint. The Pack will be great again some day. They've got a good foundation to build on.</div> Yep that's how I see it as well. When New England loses Brady and Belichek they'll probably go through something similar.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Fan make a excuses and now one is trying to convince me Favre is as good as Palmer but just doesn't have the talent around him.</div> I won't say that Favre is as good as Palmer, but I will say that if you replayed last night's game and plugged Favre into the Bengals' offense and Palmer into the Packers' offense, the result of the game would have been the same...blowout win for the Bengals. Palmer's o-line looked great and his receivers were open all day.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yep that's how I see it as well. When New England loses Brady and Belichek they'll probably go through something similar.</div> I don't think Tom would hang around when he clearly realizes he's lost it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'>I won't say that Favre is as good as Palmer, but I will say that if you replayed last night's game and plugged Favre into the Bengals' offense and Palmer into the Packers' offense, the result of the game would have been the same...blowout win for the Bengals.</div> I definitely disagree with that statement. While yes the Bengals offensive supporting cast is better you have to also remember Cinci sports one of the weakest D's of the AFC.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Cinci sports one of the weakest D's of the AFC</div> What???? Every Fantasy cheatsheet and book I've read this year has Cincy's defense in the top ten...usually hovering around six. This is a team that forced more than 40 turnovers last year and only got better in the off season.
Um sorry but fantasy doesnt necesarily translate to reality. The reason the Bengals had so many INTs is because like Indy their offense forced many teams to abandon the run early.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Fan make a excuses and now one is trying to convince me Favre is as good as Palmer but just doesn't have the talent around him.</div> I won't say that Favre is as good as Palmer, but I will say that if you replayed last night's game and plugged Favre into the Bengals' offense and Palmer into the Packers' offense, the result of the game would have been the same...blowout win for the Bengals. Palmer's o-line looked great and his receivers were open all day.</div> I agree with you Kenn. You gotta wonder if Farve wishes he was in Steve McNair's shoes. The Titans did McNair a favor while doing what was best for the team. Ted Thompson didn't have the balls to do the right thing. Now Favre will suffer and the Packers will stay in the NFC North basement that much longer. All because Ted was afraid of the wrath of the cheeseheads. :stupid:
I've said all along, Zack, that if Favre asked to be traded to a contender, I would have totally understood. Would be weird seeing him play for the Bills (for example), but if that's what he wanted, I'd have said "Good luck!" He'd still retire as a Green Bay Packer and that's enough for me. A lot of fans would have been pissed, but I would not have been one of them.
Porky I'm one of those fans who wouldn't get down on Brett no matter what but I'm not one of those fans who's out of touch with reality. Not very often though a 25 year old star or however old Palmer is shouldn't be better then a hall of famer at 36 ending his career. I don't even see a need to argue for Brett against the new young stars when he's playing his last year. I've also said this on another forum that the difference between Brett now and his prime is he use to win a lot of games without much talent but now he needs a supporting cast and he COULD still be a top 10 QB. Too bad now when he needs a supporting cast he doesn't have squat
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Porky)</div><div class='quotemain'>When New England loses Brady and Belichek they'll probably go through something similar.</div> Standings in the NFL are typically cyclical. Look at the 49ers. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bakes)</div><div class='quotemain'>you have to also remember Cinci sports one of the weakest D's of the AFC.</div> Wrong. Last year, they were pretty good. They had all those take aways. Of course, a majority were against the NFC North. LOL.
FWIW, I like Favre. I had my issues with his decision process on whether he should have returned this season. I said when Marino retired, "Other than Peyton & Brett, there are few if any QB's that I like."
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>Wrong. Last year, they were pretty good. They had all those take aways. Of course, a majority were against the NFC North. LOL.</div> No I was right. See for yourself http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-...1=4&_1:col_2=15
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>Wrong. Last year, they were pretty good. They had all those take aways. Of course, a majority were against the NFC North. LOL.</div> No I was right. See for yourself http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-...1=4&_1:col_2=15</div> By those stats would you consider GB good on defense then? We were #7 according.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>Wrong. Last year, they were pretty good. They had all those take aways. Of course, a majority were against the NFC North. LOL.</div> No I was right. See for yourself http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-...1=4&_1:col_2=15</div> By those stats would you consider GB good on defense then? We were #7 according.</div> Stats for GB are skewed. They were down and teams could run well (over 125 a game) and kill clock, thus # pass d cuz so few attempts. They werent a bad defense, just not as good as the #s look. Cincy was ranked in bottom 10 of both. They did force a lot of TO, but ultimately gave up 21.9 pts per game, also in bottom 10. If you look at the #s bears clearly were the best pass defense, run defense, total defense, scoring defense. It isnt even close. Everyone hates farve cuz he is a cheater, not any other reason
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I go to this Packer forum and if you thrash Favre even for last night your the spawn of the devil to some of these people. Fan make a excuses and now one is trying to convince me Favre is as good as Palmer but just doesn't have the talent around him. Don't get me wrong, Favre was a great QB but he's not in his prime and I'm not sure if he can carry a team on his back like he use to. We'll know this year but Favre is certainly not one of the 5 best QB's in football. Palmer is. So those who now "hate" Favre because of the last year in a half. I can understand. I'd probably hate him to if I wasn't a Packer fan especially with the Green and Gold glasses with the little #4's on that some people where.</div> People are a little touchy with a fallen icon. I saw the same with Emmitt Smith. I'll stand up a little for Favre here though. I certainly do not think he is anything near a top 5 QB or has the physical abilities of Palmer anymore. However, I do think his lack of success lately has had a lot to do with the people around him, coaches included. Favre's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that he has failed to figure out how to adapt his play to go along with a different kind of team. Yes, there are some that say he is trying to hard to make plays because he figures no one else will - and he's going to go down swinging. I will agree only to a point. There are many surprise players that step up unexpectedly in the NFL. If you don't give the team a chance, you're not going to see them. I still consider Favre to be in the upper half of starting QBs. That's not elite, but that's still pretty decent. That's saying there are more teams that could use him than not. Of course, that's just my opinion. He's fallen from what he once was, but its up to the organization to decide to put the better QB on the field....or at least put the future QB on the field more often. The Packers should not be a playoff team. If they think they can compete fairly well in the division, I think it would be good to get a good glimpse of the future this year. If they expect to be very bad, I would leave Favre in the game so no one else gets killed.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'>Favre's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that he has failed to figure out how to adapt his play to go along with a different kind of team. Yes, there are some that say he is trying to hard to make plays because he figures no one else will - and he's going to go down swinging. I will agree only to a point. There are many surprise players that step up unexpectedly in the NFL. If you don't give the team a chance, you're not going to see them.</div> That's the thing though. People don?t' want him to change. I keep saying he needs to dump the ball off or even throw it away. I also said he needs a little coaching. One person completely went nutz on me saying who is McCarthy to tell Favre to do anything. He needs know coaching. I couldn't believe how ridiculous some Packer fans have gotten. If you don't say anything other than Favre is the greatest then your an evil spawn sent to destroy all of humanity. It's one of the most ridiculous things in the world. I applaud Tony K last night for saying some pretty objective things about Favre. None of them were good. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I still consider Favre to be in the upper half of starting QBs. That's not elite, but that's still pretty decent. That's saying there are more teams that could use him than not. Of course, that's just my opinion. He's fallen from what he once was, but its up to the organization to decide to put the better QB on the field....or at least put the future QB on the field more often.</div> I consider him top 15. I also got chewed out for saying Petyon Manning and Tom Brady would of played better last year. I said they play smarter than Favre. They don't force things. They take what is given to you. Especially Brady. Again the statements weren't pretty. VF would probably be banning a lot of accounts because of some of the choice words. The sad thing is everyone overreacts. The blame everyone outside of Favre for last year. I personally think all the players including Favre, coaching, front office, etc.. all have to take some blame. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Packers should not be a playoff team. If they think they can compete fairly well in the division, I think it would be good to get a good glimpse of the future this year. If they expect to be very bad, I would leave Favre in the game so no one else gets killed.</div> I like where we'll at for the future. Aaron Rodger has looked sharp all camp long and in the pre season games. Abdul Hodge looks like he'll be the eventual starter at inside LB with Barnett probably leaving for free agency soon. AJ Hawk looks great. Greg Jennings looks like a "baby driver" out there. Brady Poppinga looks like he could start some day as well and sooner than most think. Spitz and Moll are young but can get better. Tyron Culver has had a great camp. Marvel Underwood was having a great camp before he got hurt and had to be put on IR. It's funny people are so obsessed with winning one for #4. They're are some people who wanted GB to pay more money to Hutchinson than Minnesota. Sign Eric Moulds. Give up our 1st for Deion Branch. Sign Edgerrin James. Pretty much forfeit the future so Favre can get another shot at a Super Bowl. I never though a town could be obsessive over one person. I like Favre and it's certainly not his fault but I think some fans need to wake up and find an open mind. It's like some have forgotten about 1996. Thank god for this forum. All the Packer fans here no how to look at things with an open mind and no how to accept rebuilding. I could give you a guys a couple of quotes if you want to see how a little overboard it's gotten. Even the media here in Green Bay is scared to criticize the guy. Chris Havel didn't say one bad thing about him last night. He writes for the radio and has a 2 hour radio show from 4 to 6 and he couldn't grow a pair and say Favre played bad even. All year heard were about other players screwing up. Even with the players above if Favre plays like he has Green Bay would not be a Super Team. Overall he has looked much better this pre season but last night really brought upon some reminisce on 2005
Here is an example of what you would get if you talked bad about Favre in GB. Here is a post where someone is being critical of Favre. This is not me.. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You guys can idolize Favre all you want but I can't see being blind to reality. The fact is the lack of talent on the Packers team last year didn't cause his 36 turnovers. Were they a factor in some? Sure, but the fact is he had 2-3 times as many turnovers as the QBs on the rest of the teams with records as bad or worse than GBs. And the fact is those turnovers cost us wins. I'm not pro-Favre or anti-Favre, I'm a Packer fan and to me he's just another player on the team. True, he's been one of the greatest QB's I've ever seen play in my lifetime, but that isn't going to blind me to facts when he's hurting the team. Bottom line, this team isn't good enough to win when he keeps turning the ball over.</div> Just being critical of what Favre has been doing. Now here is the response. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>HOw about this reality .... Favre said last year, this team SUCKS so bad, i'm just going to say **** it and throw it up there and see what happens BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO. We cannot win because we suck, so what the hell? Also how about this reality. I personally believe that there are actually so called Packer "fans" out there who HATE Brett Favre because they think that he has gotten bigger than the game, or at least bigger than the Packers, and they have to be hypercritical of the one good thing they have now, (and have had for years) because they have a perversion for subverting the ego and being modest to a fault--and they see Brett Favre as not being "modest" enough, or "humble" enough like their true hero and stoic--Bart Starr (whom I also love), and they resent him for it. Why else would they accuse other fans of "hero worship" and "idol worship", and claim to be a Packer fan and not just a Brett Favre fan? I am a Packer fan .... AND a Brett Favre fan, and you should be too.</div> This guy has done nothing but blame others instead Favre. He is just one of many who think Favre can't do no wrong. Now you tell me the logic in the post above. Screw it and just chuck it up. Are you kidding me???? So from an outside perspective I can see where people like Dale for an example can get so annoyed by how Packer fans treat Favre. I'll defend Favre but I think people need to have an open mind and relize that he is not what he once was. I'm not posing any links just quotes so I hope VF doesn't mind a disscussion even though I'm providing some examples from elsewhere. I can use some of Chris Havel's rants as well but these are just to priceless.
I'm a big Favre fan and I think he can still play at a high level. I look at Rich Gannon and I think that Favre could be that kind of game manager if he re-trained himself. Physically, he can play the game. There's no doubt about it. He has the arm and the accuracy, but he absolutely has to abandon the gunslinger mentality. McCarthy is trying to train him to do just that. Manage the game. Make good throws. Throw the ball away when you have to. Don't be a hero... If Favre can adopt his playing style to that methodology, quite honestly I wouldn't mind seeing him back NEXT YEAR after he plays this year. If he can't make the switch to a more cerebral game, it's time for him to retire.
