The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Denny Crane, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I just scratch my head at this kind of thing. Does congress and the EPA want us to have better mileage cars? They're regulating against our own auto manufacturers, which makes no sense, even from the standpoint where the Unions are one of the party in control's bigger constituencies.

    I know enough that VW and every other auto maker has a slew of lobbyists, so it's not like our brilliant govt. employees didn't know this new diesel tech was coming or even coming the same year they were promulgating or passing new regulations.

    I am doing the math, tho.

    If a 30 MPG car burns 1 gallon of gas to go those 30 miles, and a 65 MPG car burns ~.5 gallons of diesel to go those same 30 miles, and both gas and diesel are roughly the same when it comes to pollution, which is better? Regulation from the pollution / green guilt POV doesn't even make sense if you apply a teeny bit of logic to it. That's not even accounting for the cleaner diesel engines.

    On top of that, these diesel engines can burn biodiesel fuels, so the pollution would at least smell like french fries or something.
     
  2. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    Now I don't know whether you are railing against Congress, the EPA, or both. If it is the EPA, I suppose we could discuss the rulemaking process if you really want to.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    EPA can't pass laws or regulations, they can only enforce what congress passes and the president signs. The laws in question are the Clean Air Acts and amendments of 1970, 1977, and 1990.

    CAFE standards were enacted by Congress in 1975. Last amended by (guess who?) Congress in 1997 (surprised at the date?).

    What EPA can do is promulgate various provisions of the law - that is, selectively enforce those various provisions (or not enforce them).
     
  4. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    That's mostly incorrect. As the Government's subject-matter experts, agencies promulgate regulations to fill in the gaps created by acts of congress. The bills typically lack detail, thus enabling agencies great leeway in figuring out how they should be implemented. The regulations will go through a public notice-and-comment cycle and are published in the C.F.R. The head of the agency sets the agenda and decides which regulations to enact or amend, and ultimately decides what the new rules will require. The head of the EPA is appointed by the President. I believe that the EPA has a single Commissioner, but I don't feel like looking it up right now. One thng that the E.P.A. cannot do for itself is litigate on behalf of the government; that is handled by D.O.J. But if you want to get partisan about it, there has been plenty written about this administration's control over the decision-making process at the E.P.A., including what legal claims against rule violators to pursue and which to ignore.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's mostly incorrect.

    A widely known example of promulgation is the so-called "gag rule" on abortion. Both Bush I and Bush II promulgated rules in different laws:

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/03/4/gr030413.html

    And the text of the law in question, passed by congress in 1970:

    http://www.hhs.gov/opa/about/legislation/ofp_regs_42cfr59_10-1-2000.html

    Bush II promulgated a rule of a different law:

    http://www.reproductiverights.org/pub_fac_ggrbush.html

     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    FWIW, I'm pro choice and have mixed views on these examples of promulgation.
     
  7. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    Burton Guster would buy one immediately.
     
  8. shookem

    shookem Still not a bust

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    you guys are too smart for me but that sure does look like a nice car.
     
  9. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    You say that now. Try putting a car seat and a stroller in it :devilwink: :baby:
     
  10. shookem

    shookem Still not a bust

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    good call.

    i'm keeping my eye out for a good wagon, preferably with a woodie. we've got an elantra for now
     
  11. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    That is what got you in this situation in the first place :drumroll:
     
  12. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    DId I just visit the wrong thread?
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    No. I gave you examples of promulgation and showed you the language of the law. It's not ambiguous, unless your name is Bill Clinton (who reverse promulgated the gag rule).
     
  14. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    sorry, I'm lost. What do executive orders have to do with the regulatory authority (and process) of federal agencies? Or have you moved on?
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    My bad, I thought that HHS was one of those regulatory authorities/federal agencies. Or are you suggesting there are different rules for some agencies?
     
  16. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    i'm suggesting that you are proving no context for your posts and are not explaining your point.
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I am directly responding to each of your posts.

    Since you seem to want to go around in circles, why is it that we don't have these 65 MPG cars here, and why is VW not selling theirs here?

    Please relate the answer to the 2007 law.
     
  18. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Manufacturing costs and Ford's lack of ability to undertake capital investments on the magnitude of building plants.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Why are Ford's manufacturing costs more than Toyota's? (they're not)
     
  20. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Toyota is producing a 65 MPG Diesel engine for sale in vehicles in the US? (they're not)
     

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