Good post Netted. I cringed badly when Simmons missed shots and fumbled it on his way to the basket, but he didn't have a "clutch" box-out and rebound in crunch time. Also although Ryan played really well (and had a ton of supporters there, including myself), he had 5 fouls. Yes, he's smart, but who doesn't think a young player wants to stay on the floor? If I'm Frank, I'm worried that Ryan would play more hesitant because he would be scared to draw that 6th foul. If a player plays hesitant, that's bad for the team.
I wasn't comparing the two situations. My point is that every coach has to answer to somebody, no matter how much power and influence he has. No coach has total and complete control over his team.
I wasn't comparing. I was bringing up an example to back up my point. Comparing would be saying how much freedom Frank has in comparison to Dunleavy, or how much influence Dunleavy has in comparison to Frank.
So you are backing up your point with an example that doesn't compare to Frank's situation with the Nets? Excellent.
Simmons has to be the guy out there now, for the reasons already posted: we need a better role player at SF when playing with Harris, VC, Yi, and Brook. Hayes and Dooling is a dream combination off the bench. What I think could get Simmons out of there is if we ever decide to experiment with Devin / CDR / Vince, and then back that up with Dooling / Hayes / Simmons That would seem pretty awesome.
Huh? When did I even discuss Frank's situation in particular? I was talking about coaches' influence and control of their team in general and brought up Mike Dunleavy as an example that even coaches who are also GMs have to answer to somebody higher up. Nice try, though.
I don't know why but I don't really want to see Vince to play in SF. Maybe I think he is not that young, and I don't want him to comepete with other energetic SFs.
You'rr talking in circles. You brought up Dunleavy's relationship with his bosses to compare with Frank's relationship with his bosses, and then admit there is no comparison. I like it. Or are you saying that the situations are comparable because Dunleavy and Frank both have bosses?
You said Frank is limited by his obligation to answer to Thorn and Ratner. I said every coach has that obligation (that's why I brought up the Dunleavy example: to show that even a guy who is both coach and GM of his team has to answer to someone higher up). No coach completely rules his team. That means every coach is essentially "limited", making your point pretty much moot. I never compared Dunleavy and Frank and I don't know where you got that notion.
Gee, might I have gotten that notion when you mentioned Mike Dunleavy as someone in a comparable situation to Larry Frank. And I am telling you their situations are not comparable. Frank's relationship with Ratner/Thorn is not comparable with Dunleavy's relationship with Sterling.
Personally SF is just what you call his position, not his game. Vince will still be Vince. We'll effectively play with 3 "guards," and I think it can be awesome. If you're worried about age, don't be, Vince has continually proved that last season's early egg was the result of injury, not a natural decline. If you're worried about defense, I would line up Vince against an opposing 2 guard if they're a great scorer (Dwade, Kobe, etc). While Vince won't lock them down, he'll do a better job than CDR, who showed some problems staying in front of people before he got injured. Even while I would put Vince at SF, and CDR at SG due to their familiarity of the offense (Vince played SF until he got to NJ, and CDR played SG in college), they really are interchangible in an offense: both can hit 3's (albeit one is a lot better), and they both attack the basket, with one doing it differently (CDR) and one doing it a lot better (Carter).
Why? For the last time, I'm not comparing their situations. Fact is, no coaches have complete control over their squads. I brought Dunleavy up as an example to prove that fact, not to compare him to Frank. You're the one who keeps pushing Frank's name into this discussion while I'm not even talking about him; rather, about coaches in general. You said Frank doesn't have complete control over his team. I said no coaches have that luxury. Thus, Frank isn't different from any other coach in that he has to answer to his GM/owner. That's all I wanted to prove in this debate, but you somehow keep assuming that I'm comparing Frank to Dunleavy. Dunleavy is probably the most "powerful" coach in the league, since he's also the GM of his team. He only has to take orders from Sterling. I used him as an example that even the most "powerful" coaches have to take orders from someone and don't completely control their teams. I never compared Dunleavy to Frank.
Kobimel never once compared Frank to Dunleavy specifically. He made a general statement about all coaches in the NBA, the fact that they all have someone to answer to, a fact which is 100% true. That was the extent in which he "compared" the two, just on the fact that they both are coaches in the NBA. I don't understand why you continue to bust his chops and try to argue a point he never even tried to make.
I don't see why everyone is up in arms about Simmons or Frank or anybody on the team for that matter. Guys....we are 7-7 and have a chance to be over .500 15 games into the season. If you would have told me that back in September, as much as I would have hoped for it, I would have thought you were crazy. Most people (even some Nets players for that matter) didn't think this team would be this competitive, and listed us at the bottom of the NBA. To start going nuts about who we should change and add to a rotation after the progress this team has made is insane! The minute we put Hayes in for Simmons and this team goes 1-5, everyone on this board will become GM/Coach again and say "o man put Bobby back in...Frank what the hell are you doing get Simmons back in their!". The formula that Frank is using right now is working. How many times this season have coaches/players/fans said that Frank has out coached their team? This team is competitive,hungry, and eager to prove them self's on a night to night basis. Their .500 and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Relax and enjoy the ride.
We're overachieving so far to say the least, and I know Frank has a lot of room for improvement but he's done a hell of a job so far.
So you think kobimel's bringing up Dunleavy means that he was not comparing the two? Interesting. And ridiculous.
