Bayless looks like a deer in the headlights because Nate is breaking him to look for others first instead of playing his own game. This is actually not a bad thing - it reminds me a lot of what Nate did to LaMarcus during his rookie year - he played him behind veterans that had less of a potential than him in order to instill the idea that he has to work for his minutes and he has to play the way Nate wants him to play. Add the fact that Sergio gets minutes because he makes Rudy comfortable and is a veteran - and it is not surprising that Bayless is so low in the depth chart. He is the 5th guard the Blazers play, the only real rookie (Rudy has a lot of professional experience) and he is stuck behind an all-star, international star (Rudy), a solid PG that works well with Roy as well (Blake) and Sergio. Expect to see a lot more of Bayless after the all-star game. As for Conley's college career - his team was a lot better than Bayless's team - and it is not limited to just having the best big man in the game - he also had Cook (an NBA player) on his team. Bayless played with a bunch of scrubs. The amazing thing is that while Bayless had Oden and Cook to throw the ball to - he only averaged 2 more APG than Bayless (while scoring about half of what Bayless scored. I like Conley, I do not think he is a bust - I think he is better than what he has shown so far in the NBA - but I still consider Bayless to be a better prospect than him, especially next to Roy. As for Bayless's draft position vs. Conley's - it is not Bayless's fault that he came in the same class that had D-Rose, OJ Mayo and a bunch of other guys (all much better than Conley, FWIW, would anyone take Conley over Eric Gordon, DJ Augustin or Westbrook?) - The important thing to remember is that Conley might have been the first guard that was taken in his draft class (if we ignore the fact that Durant played SG the year he was drafted and was selected before Conley) - but that he is not the best guard from that class - Stucky, Nick Young, Rudy Fernandez, Daequan Cook and even Acie Law IV played better than Conley has shown so far - and they were all drafted after him. Finally, the knock about Blake is really low - no, he is not an MVP - but he is a much better shooter than Conley (a big plus next to Roy) - and let me remind you that while Conley "took" a team with Oden and Cook to the NCAA championship game and lost - Blake tooks a team with the mighty Juan Dixon and won the whole thing...
LMAO! And Conley would be getting the EXACT SAME treatment. He isn't better than Sergio or Blake bud... its a lateral move AT BEST, and most likely a step backwards... specially Sergio for Warrick as well. And again, ridiculous post because you compare where a guard was taken in DIFFERENT DRAFTS!!! LOL!!! Kevin Durant was taken 2nd!!! And Kwame Brown was taken 1st!!! OKC should trade Durant for Kwame, imo! And didn't Dwyane Wade go like #5 or something? If you think that the Oden/Durant draft was anywhere as deep as last year's draft, you are SORELY mistaken. And don't forget, Bayless was the consensus #4 pick up until Westbrook made his push and slipped ALL THE WAY down to #11!! Oh DEAR! There are plenty of people I'd trade Bayless for that would help this team. Even though it would suck to give him up before he got a chance, you do it if it gives the team the best chance to win. But for Conley? Come on...
This is the homerism that RR& was talking about on the first page of this thread. How do you know that Conley won't be a better pg than Blake or Sergio at this time? You can LMAO all you want, but you don't know. And where did I mention Sergio for Warrick? LMAO! your post is ridiculous homerism. Since I included that last sentence, it means I win, right? I mean, it seems to be the crux of your post, right?
Do you actually read the board? Sergio has probably more detractors on this board than anywhere else. Every time the Blazers play on the road and I get to hear the other team's announcers they gush over Sergio. Again, this is a silly generalization. First of all, there's a great diversity of opinion on this board about just about any player. Second, lots of people have their favorite players from other teams that they're always concocting trades to bring (Rudy Gay, Gerald Wallace, Devin Harris, et. al.). If anything, those guys aren't nitpicky enough. You know what's pointless? Vague generalizations without specific examples. (And to stop that last sentence from being one, you're the specific example.) Now, do you have anything substantive to say about Conley? Care to rebut any of the criticisms with, you know, evidence and stuff?
Umm, because he IS NOT? You are speculating that if he is on our team he would be better than he is on Memphis? I think it is far more likely that he would be about the same... NOT a better playmaker/passer than Sergio, so he wouldn't be on our 2nd unit. And not the low-turnover, reliable, 3 point shooter that Blake is... so he wouldn't be a starter. He would be the 3rd string PG playing garbage minutes. He isn't a player that could play PG and SG like Bayless, which would make him an even less likely candidate for playing time. It is kind of tough arguing with somebody that bases their arguement on speculation. Couldn't I say that if Bayless would get 20mpg that he would be getting 18, 7 and 4? "How do you know he wouldn't?" And the Sergio for Warrick = from the original trade rumor reported.
Yo Rasta, do you have any "ya know, evidence & stuff) that what RR7 is not true? To me you sound like an OJ Simpson defense attorney.
I am speculating, you are speculating. You should take a look at the Memphis board. They're homers for Conley just like we're homers for Bayless.
On the ESPN boards and the 3 or 4 Memphis fans on the BBF boards have been saying that Conley has been "garbage" this year, man. They want PT for Critt, and IDK if they like Lowry more, but they said he is better right now. I was in the Conley camp last year toward the end of the year on the BBF Blazer board. But dang, he didn't even look like an NBA starter in summer league.
Yeah man, but Nash was traded to Phoenix's run and gun style where he exploded. IDK if Portland is the type of team where a PG will shine too much or break out and make a career for themselves. It just seems like you are willing to give up someone like Bayless who has a lot of potential, arguably more than Conley, for another project type, just to baby Greg? And just hoping that he would blossom in our system/with our trainers?
Sorry, I gave examples, and choosing to read avery small portion of a topic before posting is your perogative. I referenced the insistence by many that Outlaw by himself was too much to give up for Devin Harris. I also cited as an example people talking up Oden's accomplishments thus far this season, based on a small sample size, yet laughing at Laker fans for trying to do the same with bynum last year, over a larger sample size, with better numbers. Does that not work as a good enough example? Their 13-10-2.5 big man wasn't anything special, but our less than 10-10-2 big man is, because we have seen flashes of brilliance. So I don't get anyone whining or yelling at me for this, I think oden is better, I think he will be better, and I understand he is coming off of inujury, not in shape, etc. We have shown flashes, and I am fine with that, as long as it works both ways. Generally, GENERALLY it does not, though. Extrapolating per 36 numbers is ok for some to do for Oden, but not for Laker fans for Bynum. Not for Toronto fans for Bargnani, etc. There are a lot of people who watch a lot of games, and give good input on players from what they see, and more detailed statistical analysis on those players. There are others who will just say Corey Brewer is abust because he averages such and such points and rebounds, as if that speaks for his whole game. I see this happen often, not specifically and only here, but on other Blazer boards, and talking with other Blazer fans.
You've never heard me saying anything about acquiring Conley to baby Greg. I think Conley is the best young point guard prospect that is possibly available to us. All I'm saying is that a Conley for Bayless trade should be thoroughly considered, and I believe KP is doing that. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled the trigger on it either.
Nash was always an exceptional distributor and shooter - he was always a weak defender - he needed a system that played to his strength (making decisions fast and forcing the other team to play fast where they are not as effective) to really explode. Jason Kidd was always a bad shooter - but he was always an exceptional distributor and defender - that's why he is/was a first rate PG. CP3 is a great distributor and a great scorer - that's why he is successful even if his defense is not top-notch. Billups is a good scorer and defender - but he is not an assist machine like the others mentioned above - but he is still a well above average PG. Conley is a very good defender, he is an average distributor and a weak shooter. As such - his ceiling is to be an average PG at best - not a top-rate one - he can not mask a weakness (shooting) with 2 great attributes as Kidd has done (not to mention that Kidd has size to help him with defense - so we can not expect Conley to be the great defender Kidd was in his prime). Bayless is a very good defender (and his size for a PG is pretty good) and an exceptional scorer, while being a below-average distributor. In the right system, where his talents of perimeter defense and scoring will be exploited - he can be an exceptional player. The funny thing is Portland seems to be tailor made for his strength - where he can guard the opposing PG and score off the ball while someone else (Roy / Rudy) takes care of some of the setting-up and distribution of the ball. Conley has a chance to be a decent PG in this league - and I would expect him to become one with the right coaching and team-mates - but he is just not as good a prospect as Bayless is.
My only issue with your comments is that they lack much insight. All of what you say is true of every fanbase (which you seem to recognize). In every fanbase, there are people who are homers, people who are overly pessimistic on their favourite team and a spectrum of "objectivity" in between. We all recognize this and understand that it is a part of conversing with a group of fans. So, you're right. There is some amount of homerism on this forum, as there is on every other large team forum. And?
We're you around a few years ago when (I think it was Crimson the Cat) started a really long thread about how shooting can be learned, but floor vision is a gift that you either have, or don't. The bottom line is that most players can learn how to shoot, but they can't learn how to be distributors. It was a great thread by the way. Where in the hell is Crim when ya need him?
I was never trying to say I had some great insight, or that I knew more. All I stated is it makes trade discussion difficult because of what you stated. It is fine to discuss, it gives us something to talk about, which is always fun, I was merely stating that the difficulty in discussing trades on a board populated primarily with one teams' fans is that there is more homerism than in a more open forum of other fans, and you get the Conley is a bust responses, and the lets try to get Amare for Outlaw and Bayless type of trades. And then i got attacked for my low post count, generalizations, and being an ass. Such is life. It does still lead to good discussion a lot of times, but in lots of trade threads, there are those who have fallen in love with our players, and put a much higher value on them, and seem to start to distance themselves from reality in trade discussion because of, as an example, Outlaw hitting some clutch shots for us last year.
I think with the emergence of Batum, a move has to be made to thin out the roster a little bit. It KP can make a move to get a quality PG, then I think he has to do it. I don't know if Conley is that guy, but we know, as someone said earlier, that KP is looking for a PG - ie discussions last year about Harris and Kidd. I think Memphis is a good trading partner in that they have a player with an expiring contract - A. Walker, and if we were to send them LaFrentz, they wouldn't have to pay half his salary once half the season is done and he hasn't played. Insurance kicks in and pays the remaining $6 mill., saving Memphis $5 mill. So, here's what I'm thinking: Outlaw, Rodriguez, and LaFrentz for Conley, Milicic, and Walker. Salaries work and if the Blazers want to use Walker's contract to go after a free agent, they can do that. Plus, Milicic only has 1 year left on his deal if we want to let him go. This lets Conley learn under Blake for the rest of this year, and then if the Blazers want to free up cap space, they can let Blake go and move Conley into the starting lineup next year. I like the idea of getting a point guard who can penetrate and dish since we have Oden down low that the PG can pass to, but also kick out to our 3 point shooters
I don't remember if I started that thread or not. I remember reading it. I believe it was posted first on Blazers Edge. I've scoured the internet to find it, but it's not there. Anyway, it was very enlightening. Shooting and other basketball skills can be taught. Becoming a facilitator for others requires something more. A built in over-amplified empathy, or a desire to help others succeed, is needed. It's not a switch that can just be turned on. It starts at an early age. Fuck. It was a damn interesting article. Bayless will never be Jason Kidd. Just as Jason Kidd will never be a Bayless. We might be able to change what is engrained in us for a series of moments, but over time, the natural tendencies take back over. It is what it is.
It was at least 2 basketball forums ago, probably between 3 and 5 years ago. It was one of the old timer posters that was great on research. Anyhow, there was much to be learned from that thread. Bottom line is that we aint going to turn Bayless into a distributing point guard, but we could turn Conley into a good scoring pg. I think the ability to see the floor and make the assist is a very underrated skill. I wish all our players could do it. It is the essence of team ball. We already have some players that are good at it, more would be better.
