Imagine that. I don't personally know some random, meaningless guy on a forum. He was as good or better. The stats show it, and the offense was directed through and by Sabonis, not Rasheed. Because it would be silly to compare stats from players playing completely different amounts. Usually, players accomplish more with more playing time. Just a thought. Interesting stance. Most people would compare players while both players were at least mobile. You don't use Jordan's stats from when he was on the Wizards to compare him to Kobe. I'd say whether or not a player is deteriorating DOES matter. Did you read my post? I said Jordan after the Wizards. I said Shaq IN THE FUTURE, as in, after he leaves the Suns. The point, which you missed, is that you can't measure a players value to a team when he leaves when he has deteriorated so far. Sabonis was at that point. Not necessarily. See above. Also, we improved after Zach left, even though you continually argue about how good of a player he is.
Sorry if you don't pay attention and/or post here long enough to know me. If you don't know me, you probably should avoid attributing emotions that I don't have to me. Sabonis only played 24.2 mpg in his career. How was the offense being run through him when he was on the bench for such a long stretch of time? And, even assuming that the offense was directed through and by Sabonis, that's only half of the equation. Rasheed was a very good defensive player... something that was rarely said about Arvydas. Sabonis was not as good as Rasheed, in part, because he was unable to play much more than half of a game on a regular basis. You extrapolating by adding 50% more playing time to Sabonis's stats renders stats that aren't very meaningful. All we're comparing is when Rasheed and Sabonis played on the Blazers. That Sabonis schooled DRob in the 1988 Olympics doesn't really matter here. I read your post. Who cares about those examples? We're not examining Shaq's or Jordan's sunset years. We are, though, looking at Sabonis's as a significant portion of the data we have to compare Sabonis and Rasheed. Sabonis and Rasheed only played six seasons together as Blazers. You want to ignore two of them because Sabonis was "deteriorated". So you want to stretch Sabonis's minutes 50% and only use 67% of the seasons they played together... that's some pretty fancy footwork in order to show that Sabonis was so much better than Rasheed when they were teammates. Ed O.
with Quick and Canzano as the main locals relaying and reflecting Blazer news, I'm sure we'll be treated to more quality coverage of what really matters in the coming years. I'm already anxiously awaiting them turning on the club. It just doesn't get much better then those two insightful knowledgeable NBA aficionados! We are so lucky! STOMP
I rest my case. Thank you. That may be the case. However, one measure of defense is blocks. Sabonis was better than Sheed there. If you have some other quantitative measurement of a player's defensive ability, I would love to see it, and then compare Wallace and Sabonis using it. Would you prefer using a stat/minute instead? Same exact numbers stated a different way. Only then I can't be accused of adding 50% more playing time. YOU are stating that normalizing to minutes played is not meaningful. That is a far cry from it being true. He didn't actually school him, but whatever. Clearly facts and stats are not important in this conversation. But we are examining Sabaonis' sunset years. You're the one who tried using the argument that you can determine a player's value to their team by how far their team falls when they leave. Those examples show that you are clearly, and absoutely wrong. Now you are trying to pass it off as "who cares". Yes. For the same reason I wouldn't compare Sabonis' prime years to Rasheed's rookie year. Not fancy footwork. Just using what is available. If you have better, objective ways to compare their real NBA carreers, I'd be happy to take a look.
No, my posts are full of facts that you just don't want to face. I'm sure I'll never convince you, but please don't throw around this idea of "lazy logic" when it doesn't apply. I've not only provided numerous examples to back up my points about Wallace, but I've provided links to NBA reporters and analysts who are saying the same thing I am. Your accusation against me is what's "lazy."
Good grief, that's weak. Do you have any proof at all that Donaghy was making unusual calls against Wallace in order to influence the outcome of games? If you do, please submit it. Otherwise, can it. And even if the calls were biased, it doesn't begin to excuse what Wallace did.
Proof? Donaghy pled guilty! Are you so blinded by your hatred that you can't grasp the fact that in the context of the game, there is NOTHING worse than a crooked official? As far as I am concerned, every NBA player has an "excuse" to sodomize that piece of garbage with a baseball bat.
In 2004 Wallace said he did not vote for Bush, who was running back then. Seems like an eternity, doesn't it?
You have provided quotes from a bunch of other Rasheed haters. People just like you. Echo chamber bullshit. If you had bothered, you could have trolled the internet and pulled up dozens of complimentary quotes that are also opinions about Rasheed. You purposefully, disengenously, and deceptively ignored those quotes, as they don't support your tightly held opinion. So, how does quoting a handful of OPINIONS, while ignoring the many contradicting opinions (many of which come from sources far closer, far better placed, with far more authority, experience and higher positions) amount to fact? (Hint: it is a rhetorical question) Tell me, why haven't you made dozens of threads discussing the career of Antwan Jamison (the guy that we play tonight)? I want you to explain to me why on gods green earth Jamison is NOT a loser, cancer and underachiever and by contrast Rasheed is all those things? I think Jamison and his career is an interesting contrast and comparison to Rasheed. Both forwards drafted very high from the same school. One has excellent PR reputation, but mostly is a non-entity on the national sports stage. Doesn't make waves good or bad. The other is a polarizing and controversial figure who has played in many big games. Since I have not seen you similarly bash Jamison multiple times (or even once) for being those things, explain to us all, why not? Also, very specifically - recite these "facts" you claim you have provided that prove Rasheed is a "Loser". Thank you for you time and attention. Masbee
No one excused Wallace for threatening Donaghy. As for the proof of bad reffing, the proof is in my eyes. You will NEVER get the NBA to admit anything. Which is part of the problem. So your request for "proof" is disengenious. You know that. I attended that game, sitting about 6 rows back from the sideline. As I posted that night (before the news broke about the confrontation on the dock) at the old site, that was the worst officiated game I had personally witnessed. I specially called out Donaghy as the bad ref, and said I was horse from screaming at that douche. I was so mad at his awful calls and despicable attitude I came very close to throwing my drink at him. Yes, Shooter - it was that bad. Yes, Shooter - Donaghy was a douche, was corrupt, did FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more to attack the "integrety" of the game than Rasheed. Why the hell don't you rail regularly about that dirtbag and the nutso and corrupt NBA system that protected him and other incompetent/corrupt officials for so long - and still does to this day? Is it because he doesn't have any tatoos and is white? No? What is it then? Towels, tantrums and techs? Are you really so easily distracted by what is essentially trivia while the real crimes go on uncommented right under your nose?
