Clear the logjam, go for a championship (STEVE NASH)

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by shamelessblazer, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I think Nash already isn't happy. His team's losing more than normal, he's not able to play a 'beautiful game', they traded away his best friend, etc.

    Add to the fact that Sarver is one of the most cash-greedy owners in the league, and I don't know if RLEC has a higher value than in Sarver/Kerr's eyes.
     
  2. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I'm the same age as Steve Nash, and while video games are just fine there's a pretty substantial age gap between him and everyone but Blake and Joel. In any case, him being bestest buds with anybody on the team ranks about number 23 on my top 10 list of things I'd hope for Steve Nash in a Blazers uniform.
     
  3. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Losing JJ hurt, but was understandable given the context. A few years earlier, the owner blew huge $
    to sign Penny Hardaway thinking it was worth it to have a championship contender for years to come.
    It didn't work out, to say the least.
     
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    :check: I forgot the /tongue-in-cheek.
     
  5. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    I watched a bit of the Suns/Lakers game last night and I have to say, Nash did not impress. On two consecutive plays he felt the need to make behind the back bounce passes. The first was easily stolen, and the second was made as the shot-clock went to zero, resulting in another turnover. His defense isn't better than Blake/Sergio, and his age and contract are worse. No thanks. We aren't living in 2006 anymore.

    On a side note, I know the Suns didn't have Shaq, but at times they played some of the worst defense I've ever seen. Seriously. There was one play where two Suns actually stood and watched as Bynum fumbled a pass directly under the basket, went up and missed a dunk, got the ball back, and then dunked it. Neither Sun player even moved during this whole thing. They had given up about four seconds before Bynum even scored.
     
  6. roydezlaw

    roydezlaw Member

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    I like Steve Nash and the way he plays the game and his sense of humor on his youtube videos but I don't know why anyone thinks Nate would want Nash. Lack of defense and turnovers makes him the opposite type of PG Nate likes. Steve's not happy playing for Porter and would probably hate playing for Nate.
     
  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But remember that McMillan had a lot of success with Ridnour, who is essentially a poor man's Nash, even down to the defense.
     
  8. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Bake the cake.

    Trades = setbacks at this point.
     
  9. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    Agree. If the Suns ever think about trading Nash, they aren't going to be thinking of players like Outlaw and Bayless . . . they will expect a big name back
     
  10. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    We can mask his defense better than any other team in the NBA (hypothetically) with Oden, LMA, Pryz, and we run zone a lot more than most teams letting Nash get into the lanes. He is a pesky defender, though not a good one I think his offense far outweighs his defensive deficiencies.
     
  11. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    Mcmillan recently said this of Nash:
    "He is still orchestrating that offense and getting everybody involved and (regarding) time, score and situation, he is probably as good as I've seen. That guy is a two-time MVP. Shaq did some good things; all those guys did some good things. But that show runs with Nash."

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8841574/Nash-rambles?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73

    maybe Mcmillan wants the "best he's ever seen" to run his team.

    Steve's not happing playing for Porter with constant change around him but people overhype the running end of it, Phoenix is choosing to run almost no pick n roll lately. Here Nash would get to run the pick n roll a lot (Nate's favorite play), not have to shoulder the entire scoring load in the backcourt, and run on quite a few opportunities on rebounds and steals. You can bet guys would get down the floor faster and move w/o the ball more w Nash here rather than Blake. Just look at the difference when Sergio's in and multiple it by three.
     
  12. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    Blake = recipe for no easy buckets and a team perimeter oriented doing everything the hard (and relying on luck) way. Get Nash, accelerate LMA, Oden, Rudy, Roy, Webster, and Batum's development.
     
  13. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm not sure he met the best he's ever seen. I think he meant that Nash is as good as he's ever seen him.

    Nash would ABSOLUTELY make this team better this year, and maybe next year. Long-term, though? It depends on what we'd have to give up. Raef and Outlaw? Sure. But Phoenix should (and WOULD) want a lot for Nash, because it would mean a rebuilding effort in a season where its fans expect a title-contender.

    Ed O.
     
  14. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Cons:
    Doesn't fit current Nateball, and Nate would have to loosen up A LOT.
    Would he fit with Brandon? Sergio doesn't especially, and Nash needs the ball to be effective.
    Would Suns want more than Raef + Blake + Bayless (what I'd be prepared to give) for Nash and filler?
    Is Nash's defense bad enough that it devalues his wonderful contributions on offense?

    Pros:
    We have other players who DO play defense (unlike Amare Stoudemire) who would cover Nash's back.
    Nash is one of the best ever at running the pick and roll. Imagine LaMarcus/Greg on a steady diet of what Stoudemire's been getting.
    Nash is a GREAT shooter, not just three pointers (like Blake) but pull ups and essentially from anywhere.
    Nash's contract runs out in 2010 anyway, so it wouldn't kill any important capspace.
    With Sergio, Nash wouldn't have to play as many minutes and could be fresher.
    He's old, but he's taken really, really good care of his body.
    Fast breaks!
     
  15. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    Not sure about that, their owner's cheap and Kerr wants to make his mark. He might have already done that with Shaq and JRich, so longer term high potential role players might make attractive to Kerr, then it will truly be his team and the fans won't choose between him and Nash (who wins that war?). In addition, Blake would stay out of iso guys like J-Rich and Shaq's way enough it might work out okay for them...Bayless could develop into a slasher for Shaq to feed, and (while I'd rather deal Outlaw) Frye probably fits well for them at 4 to stretch the floor for Shaq/Amare.

    Blake/Bayless/Frye(or Outlaw) for Nash

    they are:
    Blake/Bayless
    J-Rich/Barbosa
    Hill/Barnes
    Amare/Frye
    Shaq/Lopez

    we are:
    Nash/Sergio
    Roy/Rudy
    Webster/Batum
    Aldridge/Outlaw (or Frye)
    Oden/Pryzbilla

    with assets of: Koponen, Freeland, first rounder, four second rounders

    don't even begin to tell us we "mortage our future" by trading Bayless when you have that many young guys left that are high quality. this is not the mavs trading harris. Who cares if Nash is old, he'll help our guys develop and make us more competitive now (which translates into more experience) while helping them get easy buckets and keep their composure (vs teams like LA or BOS), and as he fades Rudy and Sergio get more minutes.
     
  16. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Phoenix would have to get a PG in any trade because they have literally NOBODY (turns out DraftExpress was right to be less than lukewarm about Goran Dragic) behind him. I think Terry would like Blake - he certainly wouldn't like Sergio much. And maybe the Suns would see homegrown product Bayless as worth a good deal. (And if they like homegrown products, perhaps they want Ike and Channing as well...)
     
  17. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    I'm not sure it would mean re-building honestly. It would mean a clear new identity with a visible shift rather than a gradual one, and it would mean Porter's the boss, but I think Blake/JRich/Hill/Amare/Shaq is still a competitor for a couple of years and afterwards Bayless/JRich/Amare is still a nice stable of young guys to build around.
     
  18. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    exactly, win-win move, we have more than enough depth in the backcourt anyways with Roy/Rudy/Sergio (and possibly Koponen) long term and Pritchard at the helm wielding draft picks galore.
     
  19. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    I think Nateball would cater to this. While I've often been a critic of Nate's conservative playcalls I recently heard an assistant on the radio talking about how they've been trying to institute motion for a long time but it's a slow process and just getting the players to move is hard. I think Nate's okay with the breaks, he just wants someone with experience guiding them. While I don't think he'd want a fast break dependent team at all, I think we need to AT LEAST be average at converting on fast break opportunities to really make some noise. We have the guys to create those opportunities through rebounding and steals already and we could play a little more risky defense (which we've shown a little through lamarcus pressuring already).

    As far as Brandon goes, he is our star and we should build around HIM but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect him to improve. If he's a versatile star he will learn to play w/o the ball a little more. Wade, Lebron, Amare, and many other young guys all cut better w/o the ball than Brandon and that's not a skill he can't learn. he's used to having everything run through him, but he can benefit from a lot of easy buckets (w or w/o Nash) by moving a little more and getting rewarded by our bigs (and passing guards in Rudy and Sergio). This would force Nash and Roy to both readjust a little, but both are great shooters and I'm not sure Nash wants to drive the lane all the time at his age anyways. I think with both of them being team first guys we'd be fine.

    Essentially Nash would own the first 16 seconds of the clock to find an easy bucket, and Roy would get the last 8 for a quick pick n roll (or pop) or an iso.
     
  20. shamelessblazer

    shamelessblazer Member

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    after tonight does anyone agree we could use someone to help get us some easy buckets?
     

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