hahaha Bush says he doesn't believe in the Bible, does believe in evolution

Way off topic and just out of curiosity, Stomp:

I could understand if you said you smoked 10 cigars a year or so...why just 10 cigarettes? Is it the flavor that keeps bringing you back? Memories? Social situations?

 

All that shows is that they aren't "evangelical Christians".

Christianity is actually quite hard to be equivocal about. You are a Christian (believing the Bible and that Jesus is who He says He was) or you don't. It's easy.

I'm not saying you're dumb if you don't believe it...I'm saying you're mistaken/lying if you don't believe it but call yourself a Christian. You can make up your own name for what you do (hence things like "Reformed", "Arminian", "Gnostic", etc), but if you don't believe that Jesus is the One and Only Way to Heaven, you're not a Christian. That's what He said.

 

Well, I think there are tens of millions of people who call themselves Christian but are not by your definition. Not that that concerns me, or should concern you - just pointing out that yours is not the only definition in common use.

barfo

 

Sorry, but I gotta call BS on this one.

Man's natural state is to invent the tool to hit someone over the head with it. Every animal is violent by nature.

Maybe you've read Machiavelli - well that's what things would be like.

 

I dunno about that. How violent is a chipmunk? A cow? A field mouse?

Without religion, things would be more like Machiavelli than they already are? I'm not convinced of that, myself.

barfo

 

Cows aren't "natural" animals - they've been slectively bred for centuries for certain traits. But there is a saying about a Bull in a china shop.

Do tell what you know Machiavelli thought about religion

 

Good kitty.

 

I understand the difficulty you're speaking about. But you're only taking one of the attributes of God into account.

Yes, God is perfectly loving. But he's also perfectly just. And He considers a lie the same as murder -- both acts of unholiness that must be avenged. It's not that non-Christians get "sent to hell"...it's that they don't "make it into heaven".

It's not something I (or anyone else) can convince you (or anyone else) of, and those that try are not really grounded in the understanding of who God is, even if their hearts are in the right place. Jesus Himself tells those that follow Him are that they are just supposed to tell people about Him, not try to convince of anything or set themselves up as examples.

I would submit that the "crazies", "wackos", "murderers in God's name" that people on the board are talking about aren't really believers....they're actually "using selective interpretation of the bible" to further justify what they want to do. That doesn't make it a) right, or b) a correct representation of God. Religion is man-made. Theology is "knowledge of God".

The thing I pray for sometimes is that people try giving "theology" a chance. If you have and it's not for you, no worries. Looking at human doctrine, patterning your life after a televangelist, etc. isn't going to do anything for you other than make you look like a hypocrite to others and potentially confuse you. But I don't think that a concerted effort to know and understand God is really bad, since it's trying to get to know Someone who is perfectly honest, just, loving and unequivocal.

Regardless, I like the discussions here and hope that it doesn't seem as if I'm trying to convince. If anything, I'm trying to convince you that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is a wacked-out hypocrite intent on burning, killing, pillaging in their name or any god's (little g) name.