hahaha Bush says he doesn't believe in the Bible, does believe in evolution

So what happened to the people between the old testament and Jesus? And not your theological opinion, but your belief based on the bible itself.

But of course the more obvious question is what does Adam and/or Eve allegedly sinning have to do with me? The sinned so that automatically makes me and every other unborn fetus a sinner? That's your god? That's your buddy?

And yet you refuse to question because that's what you believe god said it and you can't question god.

Look at yourself. That is irrational behavior for a human being. A rational human being will question things it does not know because that is what we know to be human nature. Is it true? Do you really not question that? Or are you just saying you don't question it and are afraid of showing doubt by being true and saying you doubt it.

WHY? Why do I have to acknowledge that?

Even among Christians your expressed beliefs are a rare combination (assuming you attempt to look outside of the scope of Vancouver, Wa and it's hickburbs). You're expressing a mix of random theologians mixed into one simple philosophy that works perfectly for YOU. You've expressed little of the bible, mostly regurgitated theology.

 

The point is, in your belief, god created humans as creatures who would sin, by nature (as you basically acknowledge by saying "god saw it coming"). Why would it do this, if it hates sin and sinners so much?

You don't know. That's fine. The point is, Christianity is fraught with this sort of irrationality, to which believers have to, implicitly or explicitly, agree that it's irrational but have faith anyway.

This is why I'm quite sure that "god," as conceived of by organized religion, is non-existent. There's no internal consistency or rational thread that would be expected from an order that comes from one entity. The inconsistency and irrationality perfectly fits the idea that a series of humans wrote it, at different times, with different worldviews.

Also the claim that "We mortals cannot hope to understand God's plan" doesn't really wash. Unless "God" is supremely unintelligent, it realizes that we humans only have our (God-given?) rationality by which to guide us, and would work in ways that can be understood by that rationality.

Instead we get "God hates sinners" and "God created mankind with sinful natures." And "God hates sin" but "Belief in Christ matters more than doing good."

 

God often has Infinite Mercy, Infinite Compassion, etc, ascribed to him, by Christians, including ministers.

It's not a strawman, but it can be a question of different Christians believing different things.

I've never found that compelling. God has free will, and yet is perfect. Clearly, having free will and being perfect are not irreconcilable.

It can also be trivially and effectively (if by "effectively" you mean impossible to disprove) attributed to me. Or invisible elves.

 

If god exists may god strike...you dead
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Joe Pesci is god

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with free will.

In any case, Christians tend to disown the Old Testament. At least, the parts they don't care for. I don't see many Christians obeying the laws set out in Leviticus. The slaughters and pillaging of the Old Testament are no longer compatible with the conception of God that I generally see Christians put forth, and thus they are de-emphasized or said to be out of date.

 

Provide your definition of strawman then.

That is a big debate among Christians and a theology only some sects of Christianity chose to believe

I've touched upon this plenty and have been contradicted by BFW, a Christian.

You certainly can. It's unreasonable to think you can't. What you can't do is defend faith with reason. I think that's what you were getting at.

Trivially and effectively? That's incorrect. They could irrationally be argued, but not much else. So can SuperMan.

 

Seems right to me. Christians often claim that Jesus Christ created a new covenant between God and mankind, and the New Testament replaces or supercedes the Old Testament. Do you see the rules of Leviticus followed or held as ideals to follow by most Christians?

 

Only the one about homosexuality. It's a few lines long, but the entire book is history and no longer required by Christians... except that one bit about homosexuality.

 

I doubt you believe 10% of it applies to humanity today.

 

Well, we've had very different experiences with Christians, then. Virtually every Christian I've spoken to either has no idea what's involved in Leviticus or claims that it's not relevant anymore.

 

Heh, the funny thing is that many Christians say the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, but don't realize it comes from Leviticus, a system of rules that they don't adhere to.

 

Bush/Cheney certainly tried, but these things take time.

Thank GOD for Presidential term limits!

 

dunno if it's just leviticus. i've heard a lot of christians refer to paul in romans 1 on the subject.