I guess I'd rather trust Monty, KP, Nate, Dean, Prunty and Lucas to decide if the team's 15th man should be activated or not. I doubt Shav is all that worried about it, after all he's playing for 700K this year and only made the roster by winning "pre-season survivor."
Does ANYTHING said here really matter? Neither Frye nor Diogu are getting the job done. So, why not try something else? Giving Shavlik a few minutes at back-up 4 seems to be pretty low risk. KP is level headed and hasn't shown any tendency to make a trade just to shake things up, but with all the posters on this board clamoring for multiple trades after every loss (and every 13-point win), I think giving Randolph some of Diogu's and Frye's minutes seems better than trading away away something of value to solve our back-up power forward "problem". BNM
every time i went to a preseason game and saw him on the floor i absolutely cringed on how horrible he was..... it still blows my mind how hes even on the bench
So what? After shooting about 50% for his career up until this year, I'd bet he shoots a heck of a lot better than 30% with some more minutes. You're not making sense. He has had his shot blocked four times and he has 9 offensive boards. How is that not creating extra possessions? He has 9 offensive boards and 13 field goal attempts this year. How is that not creating his own shots? I would be shocked if many players in the NBA get 75% as many offensive boards as FGA. Yinka Dare went at least 59 games (to start his career) without an assist. Over 630 minutes. But who cares? Ike barely touches the ball except right near the basket. Why does him not having any assists in 51 minutes make a difference? There's no evidence that I can see that matters that Randolph is or ever has been a better player than Diogu. Preseason games mean little more than summer league. You're watching the games, right? Ike is forcing up bad shots? Are you kidding? He's dunked once, taken nine close shots and three jumpers. He has missed a lot of shots that he has made throughout his career, but that doesn't make them bad shots. By what standard? Not by any statistical or anecdotal one I can see, other than that Ike has missed 9 of the 13 shots he's taken this year. And anyone willing to judge based on 13 shots seems to be out of touch with reality. Or named Nate McMillan. Ed O.
Are you referring to Shavlik, or Ike? Shavlik only played in three preseason games - two at home. One of those was the already mentioned game where he had 19 points on 9 - 9 shooting, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks in less than 20 minutes. I can't imagine that kind of performance making anyone "cringe". His other home preseason game was against Utah (the game where Roy, Oden and Aldridge all sat out and Utah played their regular rotation for much of the game). Admittedly, it was probably Shavlik's worst preseason game of the three, but he still had 8 points (2 - 7 FG, 4 - 6 FT), 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks in 26 minutes. BNM
Yes, I am watching the games. I've seen every minute of every game Ike has played in this year. And what I see over and over is a guy so determined to get a shot up he forces it up against double teams without ever even thinking about passing. It doesn't matter if they're from 20 feet or 20 inches - HE'S NOT MAKING THEM FOR A REASON. They are forced shots against multiple defenders when he has wide open teammates and he refuses to pass the ball. He's had over 30% of his FG attempts blocked. Why, because he's forcing up shots he has no chance of making. Have you been watching the games? It sure doesn't sound like it. BNM
The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town. I don't know any reason why Randolph deserves playing time.
Because the guys in front of him aren't getting the job done. Again, we're not talking major minutes here, but what exactly has Ike Diogu done to deserve playing time? BNM
Shavlik is a far superior talent to Ike. I don't think most of you ever caught Shav's excellent season with Philly when he was healthy. He contributed regularly.
I keep waiting for you to say, "Just kidding!" You think that he's taking bad shots because he's "double teamed" 20 inches from the hoop? And you think that 13 shots is enough to be an indicator of his ability to make shots? Let me repeat something, again in all bold: he's missed NINE SHOTS ALL SEASON from the floor. Four of those have been blocked. That means he's actually missed five shots all year. A couple of those were layups that he just blew. I seriously can't believe that you think he's forcing bad shots and all that based on a couple of missed layups. It boggles my mind. Ed O.
What season was he healthy and "excellent"? I'm honestly curious. He started six games in his second year, but he was shooting under 55% from the free throw line and 14 minutes a game. Was that when he was excellent? Or his rookie year, when his PER was 12.6 in under 9 minutes a game? Ed O.
I'd rather give Ike a bit more of a shot before switching to backup PF number 3. I like Ike's rebounding. Hopefully he can get a bit more comfortable and do more than that. I didn't get to watch the Toronto game, so I don't know how that went.
Ike seems like one of those players that dominates in high school and college and just isn't built for the NBA. Then there are also those players that are just pretty good players in college, and are pretty good in the NBA as well, which is what I think BNM is hoping for. I'm actually all for giving Randolph a shot. He actually played well in the preseason, and i'm not a fan of Frye or Diogu.
So is it better to be not healthy and not playing or healthy and not playing? Because Ike Diogu has taken the latter approach to his career. You keep acting as if Ike is a guy about to break out but none of the teams seemed to think so despite being a lottery pick. Check the box scores, when Shavlik played minutes for Philly in 05-06, he produced. It's true that he hasn't been able to stay healthy most of his career, but that is pretty irrelevant when deciding who is best to man the backup power forward spot. Even less relevant is his 55% from the free throw line when Ike Diogu is shooting 30% from the field and can't seem to make layups because he is both undersized and unathletic for his position. Not to mention the guy outplayed Ike in the preseason undoubtedly. Keep pointing out stats that are arbitrary.
So, he either gets his shot swatted back in his face or misses a contested lay-up - and you think those are good shots? He didn't fare much better in the preseason playing against mostly scrubs. Yeah, the data set is small, but the results have been awful. Every time he touches the ball I groan, becuase I know what's coming - a forced shot that has little chance to actually go in when he has wide open teammates to pass to. Maybe you don't consider those bad shots, but I do. How much more of his 30% shooting do you want to see before you think it might not be a bad idea to give the guy who totally outplayed him in preseason a chance at those 3 MPG? BNM
I'm sorry you groan, but you've got some sort of weird blind spot. He has been to the line almost twice as many times as he's missed shots. Assuming no three point plays (which is not accurate, but for this ridiculously small sample we might as well continue to simplify), he's been fouled on eight shots. Add those eight shots to his 13 attempts and that means he's either been fouled on the shot or scored a hoop on 12 of his 21 attempts. That makes you groan? Seriously? Ed O.
Dude. Please stop making stuff up. Please. First you say Randolph was "excellent", and now you act as if Ike has been healthy and just riding the bench his entire career. I think you need to do some research before you post what you claim are facts. Diogu played 69 games (including 14 starts... twice as many as Randolph has had in his entire career) as a rookie. He had fractured a bone in his left hand in training camp. Diogu played in 59 games in his second year and missed 17 games with a sprained ankle. He played 30 games last year. He missed around 20 games because of a torn calf muscle. You seriously are claiming that he has been injury-free? I'm not acting as if he's about to break out. Please tell me where I've said that. I AM saying he's at least as good as Frye (and better than Frye has played this season) and that he's better than Shavlik. You've gotta be kidding. His PER is 12.6 that year. He got fewer than 9 minutes a game. That's scrub territory. Which player are you talking about again? The one who has the invisible "excellent" season or the one who's been mythically injury-free in his career? I brought up the 55% FT% because I honestly wanted to know what year you think Shavlik was excellent. I've never claimed that Diogu has been excellent, but if I had I guarantee you I would have a better response than "check the box scores". Ed O.
What makes me groan is that he has the same number of blocked shots as made FGs and NEVER even looks to pass the ball to an open teammate. If that's not a sign of forcing up bad shots, I don't know what is. While I can see why you might be arguing that Diogu deserves more of a chance to prove himself before we give Shavlik a try, now you're trying to argue that Ike is better than Frye? You do know there's more to evaluating a player's performance than simply looking up their PER, right? Frye makes a higher percentage of his FGs. His shooting also spreads the defense and creates space and scoring opportunities for his teammates. Unlike Ike, he actually passes the ball and gets an occasional assist. When Ike touches the ball, the offense grinds to a halt while he forces up a shot which is just as likely to get blocked as go in. Until Frye gets his shot swatted as often as he makes it (54 times so far this season), and refuses to pass the ball, I don't think there is a valid argument that Ike deserves more minutes than Channing. Yes, Channing is having his worst year as a pro, but you keep wanting to bring up Ike's past performance (when he shot better than 0.308 from the field) as a reason he deserves PT over Shavlik. Well, if we're going by past performance and not current/recent performance, Channing definitely deserves to be playing in front of Ike. We're obviously not going to agree on this. When I watch Ike play, I don't like what I see. I see a selfish player in his contract year trying to pad his own stats by forcing up shots every time he touches the ball - not a team player working with his teammates to try to win games. You can disagree all you want, but that's what I've seen every time he's played this season. Until I actually see him pass the ball, you'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise. BNM
What? Why? Frye has a single good year year (his rookie season). He stunk his second year in NY and he didn't do much of anything in Portland, either. Couple those two full years of mediocrity-to-crap with his career-worst basketball this season and I think that a pattern has definitely emerged and Ike deserves a chance. By the way: you think that Ike is a ballhog, but his Usage is almost the same as Frye's this year (21.3 to 20.8). Ed O.
