I can feel the confusion in you Join the darkside! You will be celebrating a 'ship by the end of the year! I have special authorization to let you become a Lakers fan and NOT be called a bandwagoner even though half the season is done!
No he's not a dirty player, and I hate Vagynum. he delivered a hard foul to a player attacking the rim. The only reason a lot of you think it's dirty is because Portland is soft and never does that.
Thanks for the offer, but the Blazers are on the verge of willing 10 more championships. I think I'll stay with the winning team. I was just trying to see the Bynum issue as an objective bystander.
Oh, see I think it's a dirty play when you slide into a guy who's jumping into the air extended, and is therefore at his most vulnerable, make no attempt at the ball (even though he was in position to do so), and instead turn your elbow into him so hard that he's hospitalized. I guess we all have our own definition. Usually when players commit boring ol' 'hard fouls' they don't lead with their elbow.
I think Wallace was faster than Bynum had anticipated, and so he was late coming over to help on the drive. He had no choice but to deliver the hard foul. The elbow looked unintentional. Wallace was too fast on the play and Bynum wasn't in a good position to foul. Thus the contact. I doubt Bynum wanted to elbow Wallace, and I also doubt that he knew the consequences of the foul.
Bynum didnt "lead" with anything. He put his arms up to give an intentional hard foul. ....the arm bone's connected to the elbow bone... ...it was just bad timing on both players fault....no Im not saying this is partially Geralds fault....shit happens
Your putting words in my mouth/misinterpretting what I wrote, I said both instances were borderline dirty and that he clearly didn't go after the ball in either situation, but I never said he intentionally caused either injury. I think Bynum was genuinely concerned for Wallace after the play, I'm certainly not saying he's a thug or anything. But at least on these 2 occasions he's been beat by the offensive player and instead of at least trying to make a play for the ball he's instead gone after the other players body in a way that has lead to injuries, and if this continues to happen I think that the league needs to let him and the rest of the players know that this isn't how your supposed to play the game. It's a pattern of behavior that's caused at least 2 injuries and whether they were intentional or not (and I am firmly in the not intentional group), that needs to stop. Also, while Oden's foul on Allen was not the same as Bynum's, if it had seriously injured Allen I would be at the very least be calling for a hefty fine on Oden and calling it a borderline dirty play. It would have been the 1st offense, and like Bynum's foul on Oden probably not suspension worthy, but if Greg was to continue on with a pattern of behavior that was to cause other players injuries (intentional or not) then he would need to be disciplined by the league also.
The OP has a clip. Pause it at 28 seconds. He leads with the elbow... This isn't rocket science. Bynum is either incredible uncoordinated (as talented as he is I'm thinking no) or he simply committed a dirty play. It's funny how many in this thread can admit is was a flagrant, but can't bring themselves to call the play 'dirty' because it's such a dirty word. Most flagrants are dirty, this is one of them. Hell, I think some of you need to look up the definition of 'flagrant', that might sort some things out for you. I got nothing against Bynum, of everyone on the team he's about my least hated, I just think he got wrapped up in the game and put a little too much into the foul and a guy got hurt. It happens. It's still dirty.
Actually Ive discussed flagrant fouls many times before and read the ACTUAL rulebook about them. When deciding is a foul was flagrant or not intent has NOTHING to do with the determination.
They are the same. Both realized they were beat on the play, and wanted to get their money's worth. Oden even admitted this. I don't understand the difference between Bynum holding Oden and Oden holding Allen. Also, the type of play should determine whether or not a foul was dirty or not. I mean, an accidental trip could cause a major injury, but you wouldn't call the trip foul a dirty play would you?
I'm so old I remember when players didn't intentially foul because they were too lazy to play D. Yeah... there were a lot of hard stuff on rebounds... but now fouls are used to cover up bad D when you are beat.
I think Bynum was trying to get both arms extended across Wallace's body but wasn't quick enough reacting to get his right arm fully extended, he had his back to the drive initially and had to turn and extend which I think led to his right elbow catching Wallace, I don't agree that he was in a position to make a play on the ball. He looked like he was just trying to catch Wallace and wrap him up so he'd have to earn those points at the line instead of getting an easy 2 or a chance at an and1.
Well when you are giving people shit for not wanting to call it "dirty" after they agree it was a flagrant it sure sounds like you are
i don't think he's a dirty player (actually I think he's still somewhat soft at times), but that was a dirty play................dirty plays happen from time to time in the heat of the moment..................get well soon G. Wallace........
Stupid play by Bynum, although I don't consider him a dirty player. I think he should be fined and maybe suspended for a game just for the lesson's sake, but I don't think one play should shape my opinion of him.
LOL.... He NEVER had his back to the drive, initially or otherwise... have you even watched the play??? He was watching the entire time, and you can clearly see him in position a step ahead of Wallace at about the 4 second mark. What part of excessive and unneccesary doesn't sound 'dirty' to you? I guess, as I've already admitted, I must just have a different interpretation of 'dirty' than some of you. We can both agree he's not a dirty player though.
Oden didn't hold Allen, he bumped him out of bounds with his body while he was trying to slide and cut off a baseline drive. The initial whistle was for a handchecking foul because instead of having both arms out and only using his body while sliding his feet, Oden brought his left hand in and placed it on Allen's body. The getting his money's worth came when Oden raised his right arm and caught Allen on the chin with his right bicep. The distinction I make is between the intent on commiting the foul, not on the intent on causing injury. To my eyes Oden was trying to slide and cut of a drive, not ram into Allen to prevent an easy bucket, it was Oden's foul proneness that caused the foul. But on both Bynum fouls I feel he intentionally fouled both players to prevent an easy basket, and that whether or not he intended on injuring the other player (again I don't believe he did) that simply commiting an intentional foul that leads to an injury needs to be disciplined. I agree that the type of play should determine whether or not a foul is dirty/borderline and whether it deserves a fine/suspension, but not necessarily with your examples. If it's an accidental trip like if someone came down with a rebound, or 2 guys were running after a loose ball and got tangled up then no I don't think it was dirty even if someone does get injured. But if someone intentionally sticks their leg out as a guy comes around a screen, or puts a foot under someone coming down with a rebound/after a shoot (the Bruce Bowen special) then I think that does deserve league discipline.
