Would someone explain to me why Oden was so ineffective tonight?

How many years of college did Howard have? Seems like apples and oranges to me.

g

 

Could it be that he is afraid of getting fouls so is less intense?? Could it be that he gets less rebounds because the refs have taken away any physical play from him??? Could it be he is trying to figure out just what the refs will allow on his end of the court? Could it be that his coaches (read Nate and Marice) are telling him to stay out of foul trouble and he is trying figure out this game called NBA inconsistency of reffing? Just asking. I did not get to see the game last night so can't say in this game but in past games recently he seems to get emotionally deflated when he gets some quick calls against him. Can't say i blame him, especially as a very young 21 year old.

 

Almost exactly two years ago we were having almost this exact same conversation about another big man, LaMarcus Aldridge. For some reason McMillan had virtually benched him for an entire month in favor of "Former All Star" Jamal Magloire. It was one of those head-scratching moves that nobody has ever been able to explain to me. And when Aldridge was getting minutes, we didn't run plays for him. It worked out ok in the end, in that Aldridge has developed into one of the best young power forwards in the game, but how Aldridge was often used in his rookie year is still impossible to justify.

Similarly, we now have one of the most coveted young centers in the league, and McMillan only plays him for half a game, and even then only seems to acknowledge his existence on the defensive end.

It was the same way back in the day when Zach Randolph was first coming up, and Mo Cheeks wouldn't run any plays for him or give him big minutes (until we'd lost hope in that Dallas playoff series). You can even go back further to Jermaine O'Neal under Dunleavy (although I never thought Jermaine was going to be so good after we traded him.)

We've always seemed to have problems finding minutes and offensive plays for quality young big men. The coaches and media always say that these young studs need to pay their dues and figure out how to play at the NBA level. But really I think a big part of the transition is the rest of the team.

A guard or SF can force his way into dominating on offense by just taking more shots, no matter what the coach wants. If the guard does it well, the coach learns to adapt his system. A power forward or center is only going to be as successful on offense as his coach and teammates allow him to be, because they can't feed themselves the ball.

The big problem right now is that when Roy or Aldridge or Outlaw has the ball, they think they are a better focus for the offense than Oden. It just isn't so. When the coach and his teammates finally figure out that most half court possessions should go through Oden, everybody will say that Oden suddenly "Gets it" and is finally living up to his potential.

 

Maybe his dumbass coach could play him more than 21 minutes with only 2 fouls?

Maybe his dumbass coach could start drawing up a few plays to get him involved early.

 

I dont think anyone can realistically (and I use that term with a smile on my face) expect us to Oden as focal point of the offense with all the talent on this team but 5 touches a game for Oden just doesnt make any sense. Especially when the player(s) guarding him are not legit centers (ie Dirk AND Dirk was in foul trouble! Come on!) I could even live with 10 LEGIT touches a game for him.

 

To add to this, since we are then comparing Greg to Joel, lets compared Greg to Joel's first year or when he was just turned 21.

 

Great post! In defense of Nate, he wants to win enough games to get into the playoffs or the fans are going to be a little disgruntled. However it looks to me like we can do both if we do what you say.

 

I do not agree. Many of the players who are not passing the ball are not one of the big 3, and really IMO, have no right denying Oden the ball. I have seen Batum multiple times not throw Greg the ball when he reposts. I have even seen every single one of the PG look right at him when he has his guy sealed, and not throw him the ball. There has been like 1 lob to him per 3 games. It should be multiple lobs to him, per game. Then as for Nate, you can look at it in many ways, but the way I tend to look at it is, that Nate has not learned from his mistakes.

The teams strength is the front line is it not? If you don't use it, you lose it. If Greg ends up unhappy about how he is fitting in, and how he is being used, we have already had one year of his contract blown on him recovering from knee injury. We don't have the full amount of time for a rookie contract to make him feel like he fits in. Make it happen. Now.

Or maybe in a year or so, Greg decides he doesn't want to be here anymore.

 

How so? I don't think PER is saying anything controversial there. Observationally, Howard looked raw and inconsistent as a rookie. He played more minutes than Greg (on a terrible team) but outside of that, I don't think Howard looked more impressive than Oden as a rookie, despite the fact that Howard hadn't just missed a year of basketball due to an injury.

 

Sure, that's a pretty fair point. Howard's full-season PER reflects his final numbers, which includes all improvements he made that led to (likely) better results as the season wore on. So that only highlights what a good season Oden is having (outside of the fouls) that he's posting a strong PER already, despite not yet having played what will probably be a stronger second half.

 

My belief exactly.

 

barfo = lame. my posts were very non-combative if not blunt.

 

it always seems a little strange to me when per is used to compare two players from different seasons because it isn't really a comparison of how the two players produced, it's a comparison of how the two players produced compared to the league average player which is made to be 15 every season. so per tells us that oden so far has a been a little better compared to the league average than dwight was his rookie year compared to the league average that year, but doesn't necessarily say anything about who was the better player of the two.

 

That matters if the quality of "league average" changes. Which could be an issue between eras (was the average player in the 1960s as good as the average player today?), but is unlikely to be an issue over the course of about 5 years. League average five years ago is unlikely to be appreciably different than league average today.

Also, I don't consider Oden's PER to be significantly different than Howard's. They're about the same, the difference is too slight to be meaningful. Oden has basically been an above average starter when he's been on the floor, just as Howard was.

 

I love some the absolutely retarded posts made in this thread. I was guilty of bashing the team during the NOH game and they made me eat my words. Oden is inconsistent, but jesus some people are going to look really fucking dumb by the end of this year.

 

None.

 

Who's going to look dumb? Oden played terribly last night. Some of us aren't afraid to say that. If he plays better at the end of the season, we'll celebrate that.

 

there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying a guy played bad when he plays bad.

it's all the crazy conclusions people are trying to draw from it that is ridiculous and going to make people look dumb.

 

Exactly. In the first post of this thread, I merely asked why he played so badly.