Bulls Pining For Stoudemire, Kerr wants Noah Added to Deal

Yeah, that's pretty much what I summed up above. If the deal breaker as it stands now, is Noah...they need to sew this up and ship it! But I do some other teams coming in and offering more....so Chicago needs to strike while the iron's hot!

 

I'm hesitant to give up whatever they want for Amare. How do we replace those guys?

We limp through the remainder of the season with
1- Rose, Kirk
2- Gordon
3- Deng
4- Noc
5- Amare, Gray
And Hughes maybe unexiled?

This summer, we have no draft pick and we’ve got approximately $7.5M before we hit the luxury tax with which to fill out a minimum of 8 roster spots. And that doesn’t include Gordon and Gray, who will obviously be required to play big minutes.

This is pretty much a non-starter unless we can turn around and make several other deals. Why trade for a capstone piece like Amare if you have to turn around and immediately rebuild. Amare will completely wig out, behave poorly, and it’ll end in disaster.

That’s actually true of a lot of the Amare trade scenarios, even the ones that make sense basketball wise. The finances are extremely tricky. Unless someone who’s making money next year goes (Kirk, Noc, Hughes), we’ll be in an absolute world of hurt.

And unless that guy is Hughes, you run into the problem of creating a contender by trading for Amare, and then causing some chaos by immediately trading someone away for cap relief.

It’s a bit reminiscent of acquiring Wallace. At best, he opened up a little bit of a “window of opportunity” to get somewhere, but then we didn’t really go balls out to add on more players to get a team.

I've said (and reasoned) before why I'm not that hot on Amare. Unlike trading for Pau Gasol a couple years ago, there's several deals I don't think make much sense to get him. Unfortunately, it seems like we might have learned all the wrong lessons from that trade, and are now going to throw the kitchen sink at a guy I view as a much, much higher risk player. And that's not even counting the precarious situation we put the team in.

 

Like, if we include Noah and Thomas, I’d be really pressing to include a Larry Hughes for J-Rich swap in the deal. Which the Suns might be ammenable to anyway. Perhaps that’s one way to go. If you’ve got Amare in the bag, you say screw 2010 and push for other useful assets now.

If we held back Simmons in an Amare trade, I’d bet we could turn around and move Kirk, Simmons and a minimum salary guy for AK-47.

Now that’s what I call a serious team with ambitions of getting somewhere. I highly doubt Reinsdorf would pay for it, however.

 

If Bulls are willing to go into lux tax land, make that trade TODAY with Noah, resign Gordon and trade Hughes' expiring later for a good big for a team that wants to get in the 2010 sweepstakes.

 

Pretty much. If the Bulls feel that Rose/Gordon/Deng/Amare is enough to contend, then go all out. Who cares about a little bit of luxury tax. Re-sign Gordon and Gray. Bring in Rasheed Wallace on the MLE.

PG-Derrick Rose/Kirk Hinrich
SG-Ben Gordon/Kirk Hinrich
SF-Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
PF-Amare Stoudemire/Andres Nocioni
C- Rasheed Wallace/Aaron Gray

That's a very fine 8 man rotation there. We could additionally probably trade Larry Hughes at next year's deadline for an Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer (if he doesn't opt out this summer) to bolster our front court, or maybe the Hornets are still trying to get rid of Tyson Chandler at that time.

And if we feel a salary dump is necessary, I don't think the team will miss Kirk Hinrich all that much, given how good Rose/Gordon is.

 

If wishes were fishes.

I think folks really need to look at the finances of this deal. A big motivation for the Suns is supposedly that their ownership is bleeding money. There are various teams out there, like Golden State and Detroit, that could conceivably get them under the LT this year. That'd make something on the order of a $10M financial turnaround for Suns. At least. The Bulls, I don't see them going into the luxury tax until after they've "proven" something (if ever).

That makes for two problems. First, it means the Bulls can't help the Suns the way they're really like to be helped. Second, it means it's going to be incredibly difficult for the Bulls to make a trade that gives up a lot and then reconstitute themselves as a contender while paying out big salaries.

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Denny, Amare is significantly bigger and stronger than Noah. At least for the forseeable future, he'd be the guy guarding big guys whenever we really needed it.

 

How do they do that? Any team could send 25% less salary and no one has a big enough trade except or cap space to absorb Amare.

 

Well, I've read the Warriors are interested. For example, I think they could do Amare for Wright, Randolph, Turiaf, Azubuike, Williams.

That’s not a bad deal, actually. It also saves the Suns close to $4M in luxury tax payments, which is a pretty big deal. With a follow on deal to dump another million or so (say sending Randolph, Turiaf or Azubuike to a team like OKC or Memphis), it’d get the Suns below the LT altogether and save them another $2M + give them the $4-5M of LT distribution they’ll get from other teams.

All in all, that could turn into a $10M financial boon for a team that is supposedly very tight on its finances.

 

Going along with the financing issue, there's going to be a new CBA negotiated in 2011. So you have a probable declining salary cap, a 5 year extension for a 28 year old PF with a questionable knee, and a new CBA which might put a three year limit on contract length. That could strangle the franchise. And to top it off, this guy is a known diva who doesn't play much defense coming to a team that starts a strainer for a backcourt. This guy has never been a leader, and he's always been a complainer. There's no way you throw in Noah on top of Thomas. I'm even hesitant to trade Thomas since he is 4 years younger and plays twice as much D, although there'd be no minutes for him with Amare. Tyrus, Sefo and Gooden is as far as I'd go. You think the defense is bad now, wait until Amare is back there. There's a reason why Phoenix is falling apart even with all of the talent they have. They have to take Noc if they want Noah and send the bulls Lopez somehow.

 

I think Amare's defensive struggles are overrated. He sure as hell ain't no Drew Gooden.

I fail to see how a new CBA changes anything. By the time it would come in, Amare would be on a 4 year deal rather than said 3 year deal. Which ain't gonna happen anyway.

 

And it's with that thought process you won't get Amare in a Bulls uniform. Without Tyrus and Noah to make it attractive Phoenix will get a better deal elsewhere....as spoiled as Amare is....he is a legit All-Star (now and for years to come), young at only 26, and is a player that has fans coming to games and put thier butts in seats.

If your not willing to give up two inconsistent players (one who's ceiling will probably never reach anywhere near Amare's in Noah and a player that has had glimpses of good play and still riding the "potential" train since he's come into the league....for a young All-Star that still produces at that level......then either you have a severely warped overvalue system for ranking your players.....or we should all be happy you don't work in the front office...

All I kept hearing coming into this season is....the Bulls need a legit scoring monster inside to make this team special....and now that one of the best ones in the league is available.....you want to look the other way because of Noah and Tyrus?!? wow

I just don't see why anyone would want to hold on to Tyrus banking on his just his potential, hoping to be a player like Amare.....when you you can get Amare!!! It's either suck it up and run with Rose, Amare & Deng or waste the next couple years hoping Tyrus develops the production that Amare already gives....in the mean time...if it doesn't workout....Rose might leave and Amare would probably follow suit...then you stuck rebuilding again....when you could have already had something in place

 

I get that you fail. They'll be paying Amare probably more than JO is getting in Toronto right now for a guy who may be at the same mediocre level of production. And paying him longer than anybody else could by signing a new free agent. He could be one hell of an albatross by then. Basically you are pinning your hopes on Amare and Rose for the next 7 years. I'm not sure that's a bet a I'd make especially if I have to give up a few promising young players to do it. Phoenix gave up a ton of promising young players and bet on Amare and it hasn't paid off and they had better players around Amare than the bulls will have, at least starting out.

 

Amare isn't creating that offense on his own, in fact he is very dependent on Nash. It's not like you can dump it in to him and get buckets like Yao or Dwight Howard. I wouldn't even say his shooting range is that good. I wouldn't throw in Noah on top of Tyrus.

 

Rose looks like he'll be more than capable of getting Amare involved. And I can't believe you wouldn't trade Tyrus and Noah for Amare.......WOW!!!!

I whole heartedly, 100% don't agree with that! Why bank your teams future on hoping Tyrus can contribute at a high level when you can have a big that is already an All-Star? And still only 26! I really don't get it!

 

Chad Ford said that the Bulls might have a reunion with Tyson Chandler.

Maybe we could work a three way with Portland, with Chandler coming here, Hinrich and Nocioni to Portland, Lafrentz to New Orleans, and then some spare parts to Chicago (maybe Rasual Butler and Shavlik Randolph?)

 

Mike, one of the reasons I'd like to offer a strong package (even one that includes Noah) now is so that we can spend the next week spinning of some other players in 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals.

 

Yeah, I see that idea DMD, but I'd really like to get something done sooner rather than later if they're gonna make a deal like that. I might start hurt myself if I have to watch Amare teamed up with Noc and Gray in the frontcourt for the rest of the year.

 

The Gray, Amare, Nocioni, Simmons front court is really bad on NBA 2k9. Maybe we can bring in a guy like PJ Brown or Antonio Davis to finish out the year...or maybe Paul Shirley.