I'm re-reading his autobiography right now, Bird Watching: http://www.amazon.com/Bird-Watching...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236235663&sr=1-5 It's definitely not worth the $38 Amazon is asking for it, but if you see it in the bargain section at Borders you should pick it up. Fun read.
I don't think one can separate Bird and Magic. Beyond the coincidence of their overlap in time, they were pretty close to identically good. In modern times, many people do put Bird in a top-three with Jordan and Magic. I put Magic and Bird a bit lower, behind Shaq and Olajuwon, in terms of more recent players. My all-time top ten would be: Michael Jordan Wilt Chamberlain Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Hakeem Olajuwon Shaquille O'Neal Oscar Robertson Larry Bird Magic Johnson Bill Russell David Robinson Karl Malone and Jerry West just miss it. Bird and Johnson are interchangeable in that list, IMO.
Nope. Barkley did have a memorable quote about Bird: "As long as Bird is still playing, I won't be the worst defender in basketball."
I would list it this way Michael Jordan Wilt Chamberlain Magic Johnson Larry Bird Bill Russell Jerry West Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Oscar Robertson Shaquille O'Neal Dr. J No Olajuwan, no Malone
He wouldn't waste his energy. He'd just let LeBron drive the middle so McHale could clothesline him. Game over! BNM
It's a funny quote, but hardly accurate. Bird wasn't a great man-to-man defender, but he was GREAT team defender - much better than Barkley. Bird made 2nd team all-defense three times and was top 10 in steals three times. He lead the league in defensive win shares three times, was 2nd three times and top 10 eight times. He was top 8 in the entire league in defensive rating 5 times. He may not have been athletic, but he understood how to play defense and had great instincts. Barkley, not so much. He never made any all-defense teams. He had a single season, 85-86, where he was top 5 in steals, 2nd in defensive win shares and 7th in defensive rating. That was the ONLY season where was was top 10 in anything related to defense (other than defensive rebounding). Unfortunately, he also lead the league in turnovers (with more than twice as many TOs as steals) and personal fouls that year. So, that one season where he actually tired to play defense, he pretty much offset the good he did on defense by turning the ball over and committing a ton of fouls. After that, he pretty much concentrated on offense and rebounding - which was still enough to make him a first ballot Hall-of-Famer. BNM
I agree, though Barkley was probably only talking about man defense. I'd say Bird's man defense was bad, not just "not great." But I, too, think Bird was a very good team defender. Smart and active.
As the best power forward? I think it's close, but I'd still give Malone the edge. I'd say Malone had the more dominant offensive prime and he was a good/very good player for an absurdly long time. Duncan was a significantly better defender. They were similarly good rebounders. If Duncan ends up being good for as long (currently he's at 12 years, Malone went 19), I'd put Duncan ahead of Malone.
Although man-to-man defense wasn't his strength, Bird was better at it than Barkley. At least Bird generally kept his man in front of him. He also did it against both power forwards (early part of his career) and small forwards (latter half of his career). Bird's defense did suffer a bit during the second half of his career when McHale became the starting PF and Bird was forced to guard smaller, faster (and often younger) small forwards. But he still ended up with a better career defensive rating than Barkley (101 vs. 105). Again, he wasn't very athletic, but he knew how to play good defense and worked hard at it. Back when Bird played, zone defense was illegal. I bet he'd do even better as a team defender in today's NBA where zone defenses could help cover up his individual shortcomings and let him do what he did best - play the passing lanes, anticipate the pass and get the steal. BNM
Yeah, no arguments from me that Bird was a significantly better defender than Barkley. Barkley was always good for a quote, though.
I consider championships to be more important to lasting legacy than duration of career. Given comparable output, of course. No one is going to argue that Horry is one of the all-time greats...
I don't much care about legacy. My interest in who was the better player. Winning championships is too team-dependent.
Although I agree in principle, would Duncan have any championships if the prime of his career had had overlapped with Michael Jordan's? Jordan is the main reason guys like Malone and Barkley retired ringless. Bad luck for them. And, if Jordan hadn't left to go play baseball between his two three-peats, Hakeem wouldn't have any either. BNM
Duncan is a center. He's been playing center for a long time, too. He's the best PF of all time. But Shaq, Hakeem, the Admiral, et al. should also be in that PF discussion, then, if TD gets to be there. Duncan is the best post player of this current era. He's not as physically dominating as Shaq, no, but he's a much better defender and probably just as valuable (although it's late and I'm not going to look up the advanced stats) scorer.
