Where is he disagreeing with me? I said his points could be replaced, I didn't say there were a lot of 20 point scorers. And BG's per minute numbers would definitely benefit from limiting him to 30 mins. And the points he gives up would be impacted even more positively.
Talk about reading comprehension...Either that or you are deliberating snipping misleading portions of the article to obscure Jackson's main point. You missed this.... Like I said, Jackson thinks the Bulls should sign Gordon and play him starter's minutes. p.s. Since Jackson wants Gordon, Salmons and Gordon to all play starter's minutes and it's only due to ego in regards to whom should start, I can only assume that Jackon feels that Deng's and Salmon's egos are a lot more fragile than Gordons. I concur.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=292541&src=150 Crowded backcourt makes it hard to predict how Bulls will play hand By Mike McGraw | Daily Herald Staff There is a decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Ben Gordon this summer. He clearly wants to return and the Bulls need his scoring, so it doesn't make sense for either side to end the relationship. There is a related question in this debate, though. If the Bulls' leading scorer stays, does it mean Kirk Hinrich has to go? Of course, since Hinrich is under contract for three more years and Gordon becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1, another option is letting Gordon walk away, filling his spot with Hinrich and John Salmons. This question played out on the court for much of the Bulls' season - which is more valuable, Gordon's offense or Hinrich's defense? Gordon drains some of the NBA's most difficult shots and his value was never more obvious than in the playoff series with Boston. He scored 42 points in Game 2, saved Game 4 with a clutch 3-pointer and nearly shot the Bulls to a victory in Game 5 before a hamstring injury slowed him down. Hinrich does everything well, but he stands out on the Bulls as the best individual defender. After coming back from two months off with thumb injury, he seemed to make a point of getting into people defensively, perhaps to show his teammates it can be done. The Gordon-Hinrich problem isn't so much playing time, but the cost. Hinrich is set to make $9.5 million next year, a large sum for a backup player. If the Bulls begin next season with the starting lineup they used in the playoffs against Boston, Hinrich, Luol Deng and Brad Miller would give the Bulls a whopping $32 million in salaries coming off the bench, although three starters (Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas) are still on their rookie scale contracts. A day after the Bulls ended their season with a Game 7 loss in Boston, Gordon wasn't even sure if the three-man backcourt should continue in its current state. "Kirk has been a starting point guard since he's been in the league and this year, he moved to the bench," Gordon said. "I'm definitely sure he'd probably like to be back in that starting role and playing the way he's been playing in the past. So I don't know if (the lineup) has worked out that well. We still have a lot of guards that commanded a lot of minutes." Keeping both players remains a possibility. It's a luxury the Bulls could probably afford if they're willing to pay the luxury tax for one season. Hinrich was essentially a full-time starter during his first five years with the Bulls, but something had to change when lottery luck dropped Rose into the team's lap. Thabo Sefolosha actually started the first five games at two guard last season, with both Gordon and Hinrich coming off the bench. Coach Vinny Del Negro switched to Hinrich, but that assignment lasted just one game when Hinrich tore a thumb ligament on Nov. 7. Hinrich's injury set up the Gordon-Rose starting backcourt, which stayed in place for all but one of the final 76 games. But Del Negro mentioned several times how Hinrich's return in January from the thumb injury helped change the season. The team culture shifted when Larry Hughes' "The game's no fun if I don't get my shots" minutes were replaced with Hinrich's team-oriented approach. Hinrich does have plenty of offensive skill. He averaged a career-high 16.6 points in 2006-07 and was the only player with a hot hand in the fourth quarter of Game 7, producing 14 of the Bulls' 27 points. Gordon, on the other hand, is probably not as bad a defender as he's often made out to be. When it comes to chasing an opponent and staying in front of him, Gordon does that as well as any of his teammates other than Hinrich. Gordon has trouble with certain matchups, though, because he's undersized at 6-2 and some teams decided to attack him early in games by sending a taller guard into the post. Cleveland's Delonte West and Dallas' Brandon Wright were a couple examples from this season, when it was helpful having Hinrich in reserve. One way to approach things, if the Bulls do re-sign Gordon, is to trade Hinrich for a couple of lesser-priced players who could serve as quality backups. The plan they used in the playoffs, with basically two starters, Hinrich and Miller, coming off the bench, is not very common in the NBA. But it did work well against the Celtics.
That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, and I still think his basic premise that the bulls need BG's scoring is wrong. But I am sure you disagree. Whatever. As far as I am concerned BG is the Rex Grossman of the bulls and will be just fine without him.
Ray Allen: “I told Rondo after the game, 'They were probably the toughest matchup we've had , if I go back to even last year, because they have three guys capable of scoring 40 a night and it definitely put a crunch on our defense.” The three would be: Hinrich, Thabo, and Tyrus, right? (Gordon, Rose, and Salmons)
Sam Smith goes back and forth. Nobody has really disagreed with me. I've said all along if you can sign BG for less money and bring him off of the bench, then do that and trade Hinrich. If BG wants starter money and big minutes, do what you can, otherwise let him walk. Has anybody said that BG should be paid big money and be the starter? I haven't seen that anywhere either.
Less money than what? Seems like the standard position at least from McGraw and Jackson is retain him. I'm not sure why you are hung up on a starter role or not. If the Bulls retain Gordon, I'm sure there will be plans at times to get a bigger lineup out there but I'm sure Gordon will play at a very high level and earn starter or near starter minutes.
Last time I checked, 6 years $72M isn't a max contract. An interesting observation about game 7 of the Celtics series. The magic went at Pierce with Rashard (height mismatch). Shard outscored Pierce 19-16 and shot 7 FTA more than his season average. He went 3-6 in the 2nd half as the Magic opened up a big blowout type lead. Pierce shot 4-13, with 2 rebounds and 3 assists in 39 minutes. What does he bring that warrants him playing instead of being benched? Interestingly, Pierce's season averages: 20.5 PPG, 39% 3Pt, 45% FG, 5.6 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1 SPG, 2.8 TO/Game And Gordon's: 20.7 PPG, 41% 3Pt, 44% FG, 3.5 RPG, 3.5 APG, .9 SPG, 2.4 TO/Game
Here's the difference, Pierce gets his points when the game is on the line, he doesn't run up his scoring when the team is down double digits to make a 15 point blowout a 7 point defeat. Pierce is also a guy who can get a good shot, not a step back, fadeaway, when the game is on the line. Dig a little deeper and I bet the advanced numbers aren't nearly so close... And you're kidding about benching Pierce, right? And what about Ray Allen, he should have gone to the bench too, right? Funny how playing a little defense gets you a win on the road against a depleted team, something the bulls sure couldn't seem to do with BG on the court. And look at that series. Does bringing BG back give the bulls any shot of going up against the Magic? Or the Celtics with a healthy KG. The fact that the bulls couldn't do it with BG ought to speak volumes about whether he's a necessary piece of the puzzle. They beat the C's on BG's bad nights just as much as on his good nights, and actually lost when BG played his best game. So tying up a bunch of money in a one-dimensional guy is about the last thing I'd do if the goal was advancing in the playoffs. And if he's signed, BG's salary needs to be less than Hinrich's is now, something in the $7-8 million per year range at most. Otherwise it's not worth it because BG's scoring doesn't make up for his poor defense or ball handling, especially against good teams. As far as playing at a high level, BG has a ways to go to reach anything near Pierce. And as far as the standard position goes, BG is a stand up guy and I am sure the beat reporters like dealing with him. But that doesn't mean he's a guy you build a team around. If the reporters knew more about running a team, they'd be in management, not writing for newspapers.
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_090518.html?rss=true As for the Bulls at No. 16—and I have no idea what they are thinking—I’d probably go for a point guard in June’s NBA Draft. I like Syracuse’s Jonny Flynn, but he likely won’t make it to No. 16. Little Ty Lawson might, but I’m thinking a tough guy, a bit more mature, and Virginia Commonwealth’s Eric Maynor could be the guy. Memphis’ Tyreke Evans certainly will be taken by then as well as Brandon Jennings and Stephen Curry. The Knicks have been rumored already making a promise to Curry if they don’t get into the top three as coach Mike D’Antoni is said to believe Curry can be his Steve Nash because of his shooting and ability to handle with both hands so well. I have thought the Bulls could go with an undersized banger like Dujuan Blair if he gets there, which is possible. But I think you go for the point guard because I believe there’s little chance Kirk Hinrich is back next season. It seems clear now it’s an either/or with Hinrich and Ben Gordon, and I think the Bulls may make a bid to re-sign Gordon. Here’s one scenario: There’s a question in Atlanta whether they bring back point guard Mike Bibby. I personally doubt it the way Bibby slumped as the playoffs went on. Atlanta can get enough under the salary cap to absorb most of Hinrich’s contract. If that contract comes off the books, the Bulls should be in good position to extend a fair offer to Gordon—should they want to, of course, which I really don’t know. I’ve long thought the deal that made the most sense for both teams with Hinrich was with Portland. Their GM is a Kansas guy like Hinrich and Steve Blake would be an ideal and cheaper backup combo guard. But the talk is the Trail Blazers will sign the 76ers Andre Miller as a free agent. Then they’ll use their extra pieces, perhaps including Blake, to make a deal for a banger up front. Then the 76ers would need a point guard, and that could be where Bibby goes if the 76ers lose Miller, which seems likely as the free agent boycotted the team’s final meetings. Another possibility I’ve thought about with Hinrich is Minnesota. They were chasing him hard last February. I can see a deal for Mike Miller and a first round pick since the Timberwolves have three. Three No. 1s would give the Bulls a chance to put together a package of some sort for a deal. Miller could backup John Salmons at shooting guard and Luol Deng at small forward, and Miller’s contract expires after next season. Then you get to the big question: Now or 2010? Say you move Hinrich and let Gordon go and get Miller, and then let Miller go after next season. Then with the expiring deals of Jerome James, Tim Thomas and Brad Miller you should be far enough under the salary cap to pay two free agents major deals. So—and this is all speculation—you tell Bosh and Dwyane Wade they’ll play with Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, John Salmons and Joakim Noah. That’s a heck of a lot more than anyone else seemingly could offer for a chance to be an instant championship contender. And the pressure is no longer on one guy to be the star. And there’s a star level point guard already in Chicago to get you the ball. There’s another way to do that: Trade for Tracy McGrady. You know with this wonderful Rockets run they won’t want McGrady back. But they’ll want to be careful not to say so. Coming off microfracture surgery, he hardly can defend. Not that he tried much before. And even healthy he was a slowdown, walk it up player. What if the Rockets could get someone like Hinrich? And you give them an expiring deal to help Houston’s financial situation also to match salaries. McGrady’s deal ends after next season as well. Maybe he plays a little. Who knows. He’s been rehabbing in Chicago already. Maybe the Rockets throw in a pick as well. Of course, there’s also the doomsday possibility that no one comes as a free agent and you are stuck with the Ron Mercer option. There’s going to be lots of competition. The talk already has been Cleveland, which can get under, will make a bold push for Joe Johnson. Heck, the Knicks could offer ownership in the Rangers if they get desperate. What makes sense to us rarely makes sense to players. But then, Chicago is a major market, and that could be a heck of a team. But the Bulls also were looking pretty good this spring. So maybe you bring back Gordon or do a sign and trade and keep Hinrich and maybe you take the two draft picks and… Yes, there are a lot of possibilities. And it’s more than a month to the draft.
Now you're denying the Gordon is clutch. You want Gordon out there as much as possible for the same reasons you want Pierce out there. He may have a shitty game, but when it's on the line, they're the guys you want your team to shoot the last shot. The Bulls won the game that Allen scored 50, btw.
I don't think you have an understanding about what guys get paid when management builds a team around them. Bulls have 3 guys making $9.5M or more next year. Did management say we are building a team around them when they got signed?
The Bulls have $12.5M tied up in Brad Miller, $9.4M in Luol Deng, $10M in Hinrich, $6.2M in Jerome James, $6M in Tim Thomas. Miller was worth it, probably not these days. Deng hasn't shown up for a full season the past two. Hinrich is fairly paid, perhaps. James didn't play a game. Thomas barely contributed. Deng, James, and Thomas earned $21M between them. Gordon's certainly worth half that or more.
Quote? They might have said building blocks of a good team, but no ever said they were building a team around Kirk Hinrich. Same for Deng.
Paxson said "we're going to build with Kirk." Kirk was the player announced last for a couple years at the UC. Now its Derrick Rose. A couple years ago, as an end of season gift to the season ticket holders, they sent out a Kirk Hinrich jersey. This year it was Derrick Rose.
Perhaps we are getting into semantics too closely, but "with" and "around" are different IMHO. And they had to send out someone's jersey prior to Rose. More of a marketing decision. Let's look at this another way...look at the list of non-rookie-contract players that are as good as Gorden that get $7-$8M a year or less vs. the list of all the players that are worse and getting more money. I bet the latter list is at least 5x as long...probably much longer.
It's a different day as far as contracts go. If BG starts worrying about all the money he isn't getting he's going to be nothing but a bitter guy. He should have signed the deal two years ago. He also should have improved his defense and ball handling since then. Every dollar that BG makes more than JR Smith he should be greatful for.
