Yup, I totally agree. We'd essentially be trading "Big Shot Trav" for "Big shot Turkey Glue" ... who's actually bigger, got a better handle, sees the floor better and has a better hoops IQ.
The day Nate is fired is the day KP gets serious about pushing the tempo and winning titles. It's clear Nate doesn't understand how to coach a quick team, and seemingly has no interest in learning how.
What about his 7-7 rule? If you can get something in the first 7 secs take it. That seems to indicate that he is willing to push it if it's there, that's the important part and what most good teams do. Run when it's there, play half court when it's not. Don't just run down and take a bad shot, that's not up tempo, it's just stupid. I think if we are playing good D we'll see a more up tempo game because good D produces easy fast breaks.
At what point do you stop believing Nate wants to push the ball? He can talk all he wants about wanting to, but the fact is Portland is always at the bottom in pace. His Seattle teams never were really in the top of pace either.
I hate this argument - because it ignores facts. Nate did not have the players to play fast in Seattle. Management wanted him to make it quicker - and in his 3rd year his team went up to be a middle of the pack team in pace - and it was the year they won least under him there (only 37 wins, all other years they were in the 40s or up). Next year he slowed them down and they won the most (52). A year after that - he left and management imposed a play fast rule - they jumped to 11th in pace in the entire league and won less games than any year they were under Nate (with basically the same roster and Ray Allen having a career year). In other words - the roster was not going to work in a fast pace system, Nate knew it and he optimized the game plan to the roster - which is what good coaches do. The fact of the matter is that this team is further ahead of where anyone expected it - and it is winning way more than a team as young as this should - and there is a reason for it - Nate understands his roster and designs plays to maximize it's efficiency...
People trick themselves into believing that a fast pace system is best for this team, but it's only because they find it more entertaining. If you don't have a good half court offense, you won't be a championship team. You don't teach a team to run, then try to work in a half court offense. We are getting close to having a firm grip on our half court offense, and once our defense gets a little better, the opportunity to run will present itself.
Orlando plays at a pretty fast pace, but they aren't a run and gun team. I think people are talking about speeding up Portland's pace from the slowest in the NBA to something in the middle of the pack.
I think you are going to see it as our team matures - but let's remember that Portland is not really the slowest team in the NBA - because they are the #1 offensive rebounding team - and offensive rebounds do not start a new possessions. Portland is just ultra-efficient with it's possessions because of great execution and great offensive rebounding that "extends" these possessions...
And I hate this arguement because it ignores Nate. Nate says in almost any interview that he wants to push the pace. Yet his teams never do. I think at some point one needs to start thinking that Nate doesn't truly want to play faster. You might also want to mention that in the 37 win year the Sonics lost 126 total man games due to injury. I am just guessing, but I think that had a lot more to do with their record than anything else. Two of those players, Ray Allen (leading scorer) and Brent Barry (5th leading scorer), were really important to that team as well. As for the difference in pace between the 37 win season and the 52 win season it was .6. Yes, you all heard me correctly, it was a difference of just about 1/2 of 1 point. 91.8 to 91.2 Stats for the 37 win team, 52 win team and the year Nate left in that order. EFF - offense 104.9 108.1 106.9 This shows that with their 2 all-stars playing the entire year the Sonics were at their best PPG - offense 97.1 98.9 102.6 This shows that when Nate left the scoring went way up, but the win total went way down......Not because of offense though. Pace - offense 91.8 91.2 94.5 This shows that despite having very different records, Nate coached the teams the same in 03 and 04. In 05 the new coach had a much higher pace. Now defense EFF - Defense 105.4 105.5 111.3 This shows that Nate's teams were never very good defensively, but got a lot worse after he left. Also virtually the same for both the 37 and 52 win teams. PPG - defense 97.8 96.6 105.6 This shows that Nate's teams play better defense than Bob Weiss' and Bob Hill's teams did. I think since those first two numbers on each stat are so close I think the big difference between the 37 and 52 win teams is all about injuries, and not at all about pace
No one is talking about being Phoenix part II. Take this years finals and you will see that both the Lakers and a Magic are in the top 12 of pace.
Actually for the regular season.... Denver was 5th in pace LA was 6th in pace Orlando was 12th in pace Only Cleveland was low at 25th In the playoffs Denver, LA and Orlando again were in the top half while Cleveland came in 11th out of 16 teams for pace
In Seattle's 52 win season with two mature all-stars they only averaged a pace of 2 higher than ours last year. That team would still have been 25th in the league this last season. NATE DOES NOT WANT TO PUSH TEMPO.
I do not know where you got your numbers from - but they differ from basketball reference's number. The 37 wins team was 2 possessions per game faster than the 52 wins team and was 15th in the NBA compared to the 52 win team that was 27... I am not sure where these numbers are from - but Seattle had Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis for more games after Nate left and they still won only 35 games. Also - the 37 wins team had Lewis for more games than the 52 wins team. Of course because of the offense - their efficiency fell down, turn-overs were up, the other team was having a lot of success rebounding the ball, causing turn-overs (an extra 2.5 per game) and shoving it down their throat because their defense was not longer able to get back on time. Again - the numbers differ from what BBR shows - they were 15th in pace, 27th and 11th in this order - and the actual numbers are different as well - what is not different is how slow or fast they were compared to the rest of the league - this team worked well only when it was slower than the other teams because they were built on 3P shooting and did not make great decisions in a fast-pace. Actually, this team was awful defensively all the time - which is the reason they needed to play slow - to minimize the possessions of the other team. They were 27th worst in the NBA under Nate, 30th worse without him. Not a surprise when your team does not have a defensive anchor or anyone good defensively on the perimeter. The reason they were better defensively under Nate was because the slow pace allowed them to take care of the ball better, limited the possessions for the other team and limited easy points against an unset defense that the fast pace dictated. Per BBR - the difference in possessions per game between the 52 wins team and the 35 wins team was 4. The difference in defense between these teams in PPG came down to 9 points - so yes, Nate's team was a tiny bit better defensively - but he help negate the bad defense by limiting possessions and easy fast break points because of turn-overs and inefficient offense by slowing them down. Hard to agree with that when the 35 teams actually had both Lewis and Allen play more than the 52 wins team and Lewis play more on the 37 wins team than he did on the 52 wins one.
Pace has nothing to do with it. The problem is when you get intot he playoffs, the refs make so many calls that the game is stopped all the time. Phoenix was one of the most successful running teams there has been since the showtime Lakers, and they never could even make it to the finals. The reason? Playoff basketball reduces their chances of success due to all of the game stopage.
I got my numbers from www.databasebasketball.com I am not sure where these numbers are from - but Seattle had Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis for more games after Nate left and they still won only 35 games. Also - the 37 wins team had Lewis for more games than the 52 wins team. Allen, their best player, missed the majority of the games.
I wish I could find playoff fastbreak pts, but I can't. The regular season this year shows Orlando was the closest team to us in fast break points at 11.2. (we were 9.0. 10.5 at home and 7.6 on the road) Portland needs more easy baskets period.
