I don't know that I'd say Conley could get the same results. Look, we're talking about a guy who's between Jason Kidd and Chris Paul in his passing ability and court vision (in the eyes of scouts). Some have said he's the best Euro passer ever. Some compare him to Maravich and Magic for court vision. I don't see people saying that about Conley. Yes, Conley'd be cheaper. No, I wouldn't hate it if Conley was the best we could do. But if there's a potential for getting Rubio, albeit minute, then I think KP has to do the due diligence to try to get him. Some other complaints are that he's not ready to carry a lottery team. He won't have to here. Some say that his turnovers are from throwing to the likes of Jerome Moiso. With LMA and a healthy Oden, I can't think of another team in the league that is set up to utilize Rubio as well as us. Some say he might get a coach fired. Nate is about the 4th-to-last guy in the league in likelihood of getting fired (behind PJax, Sloan and Pops). Some say he is 2 years away from being all-world. Our core has two years.
Since you ignored my question, I'll surmise that you didn't watch that game. There's a ton more to basketball than that stat line you pulled up. Nor did you care to place it in the context of what happened. He was 17 and holding his own with our country's best stars. He was getting his teammates involved and playing more than solid defense. When his shot wasn't falling, he was getting to the line. Whatever.
Rudy Fernandez looked to be the second best player on the floor that game, and it turns out he is a limited player who may never have the all-around game to be an All-Star type starter in the NBA. Put me in the group that says trading 3 NBA players from a 54-win team for a skinny 18 year-old 6'3" PG who can't shoot is an absurd idea. Rubio may become a great NBA player, but he may not even worth a lottery pick for the duration of his rookie contract.
True. And Ricky is, what, 4 years younger? Simplified, the discussion could be first all-team potential vs. all-star potential. Great points!
I watched the game - Ricky Rubio looked like he could be a fine player someday.. but he did not look like a guy I would trade Rudy, Travis and Sergio in order to get. That would be a big time gamble.. there is no reason to gamble right now.. Rudy, Travis and Sergio should get us a proven Allstar level PG.
Correct, which makes it silly to me to trade away two proven productive players along with an older version of Rubio for a player that may take 4 years (or longer) to develop into an elite PG. The timing just isn't right for Rubio in terms of where the team is at right now. Plus, Blake was berated for allowing Brooks and Lowry to penetrate, and Rubio is an even worse perimeter defender at this point.
Did you have an All-Star level PG in mind that could be had for that package? I can't think of any that would be made available for that package. Anyway, I'm still torn between the idea of swinging for the fences, especially without giving away our core and losing a step in our ascension into the depths of the Playoffs, or just playing it safer and getting a sure hit.
Impossible to know who is available and for what price... I should have said that for me to endorse trading those guys - I would expect an Allstar level player in return... could that package get you Steve Nash? Jason Kidd and Brandon Bass? Andre Miller and change? not sure.. but I'd prefer those guys to Rubio - for a team that has a chance to win now.
Your last point fascinates me, Hank. Who do you think would be available that would qualify for that? Someone like Billups? CP3? Parker? Nash/Kidd? I'd agree that I'd taken the proven Parker/CP3 over Rubio for that package. Nash/Kidd/Billups is a bit of a weaker argument, but maybe. Color me supremely unimpressed with Miller, and after watching 3 years of SAC games with Bibby at the helm, no thank you. EDIT: Was typing this post before I saw your response.
By losing Rudy, Travis and Sergio, is it really a set back? You still have Blake, Brandon, Batum, Aldridge, Oden and Joel. You're replacing Sergio and Rudy with Bayless and Webster. You still have your cap space, a traded player exception, the #24 pick, our 2nd rounders, Frye, and Joel Freeland's rights to help improve the team further. I still see us as a sure Playoff team, given the improvements all our existing players will likely make. I don't know. As I already said, I'm torn. I question whether a move such as this is even necessary. I'd sorely miss Rudy, but I just don't think the loss will hurt us in the short term and the benefits in the long term would be awesome.
If you can get him without giving up a ton of value then sure I think you could take Rubio and attempt to groom him for the future, but I just don't see Portland giving away two or three players and taking back a bad contract just to get yet another rookie point guard. If you are looking at getting the most bang for the buck, then think veteran with proven track record of "good" starter level play, and think of guys that you know have a complimentary NBA game. Imagine if Rubio has the same troubles as Sergio (shooting and can't manage the half-court offense) and we're right back to where we started, only worse because you've likely given up some really good players that helped get you to 54 wins. Rubio last year would have been great, this year? Not as much.
i dont think rudy, travis, and sergio even get you an all star pg....trade 3 bench players for an all star, if a deal ever comes up like that, they better do it.
You're losing two of the better off-the-bench offensive players in the league. Webster has been a below average NBA player to date, and Bayless is undersized at SG and unnecessary at PG unless you plan to give Rubio the Bayless rookie treatment. I think that trade makes the team considerably worse off simply due to losing two long and athletic wing players who both play multiple positions in Rudy and Outlaw, and in turn replacing them with...nothing?
If we could get Tony Parker for that package, I would be ecstatic and quickly forget Rubio. Quickly. Nash, Kidd, Bibby, or Miller would not make me a happy camper. I wouldn't even be excited about adding them in as a free agent, not for the couple of years left of decent production we'd get. I don't think the addition of them would help us reach a championship. Maybe the WCF, but that's as far as I believe they could take us personally.
Steve Nash is still playing at a very high level - I think he has 3-4 more good years in him.. can you imagine Nash feeding LaMarcus on the break or working the pick and roll with Oden? Yikes... Nash is the ideal target for KP.
I really do not see why we need more offense when we had one of the most efficient ones in the league with slow and safe Blake. What we need is an upgrade on defense from the perimeter, especially against quick point guards - and Nash is not the answer there. We have seen how Aaron Brooks killed us in the playoffs, we have seen how much trouble we had containing NOH until CP3 went down and we killed that same team without him in a matter of minutes. Dallas was a real headache for us not because of Kidd, but because we could never stop the penetration from Barea, Parker single-handly won one game for SAS against us last year (and almost the first meeting as well) - despite the fact that other than him we match exceptionally well against them. Perimeter defense is the #1 problem for this team to really take the next step - our offense will do just fine with what we already have - Roy is already among the hardest players in the league to stop, LMA is a quality big guy that will continue getting better, Oden by virtue of being able to stay an extra 10 minutes on the court per game will increase our offensive efficiency even if he never learn one skill on top of what we have seen from him his rookie year, we can assume that Batum and Rudy will get better and JB could provide more scoring punch as well. It's perimeter defense that kills us. Simple as that.
I don't know. I've always liked his game. What I've been concerned about is that age of his. He'll be 36 before we even get into the Playoffs next year. His PER has gone down from 24 (3 years ago), 21 (2 years ago), and 19.5 (last year). As risky as you say it is to draft Ricky Rubio, I would say it's equally as risky to trade for Steve Nash. Maybe we get 2 or 3 more seasons of higher-than-average caliber play. At least with Rubio we'll have, eventually, all of our core in their primes with him. With Nash, no one will be in their primes while he's a Blazer.
The fact that Nash has sustained the level of play he has this far past his prime years is actually amazing. Props to Nash.
I'm sorry - but I don't buy the whole theory that our offense is so efficient so we don't need to get better there. Brandon Roy bailed us out all season long - and that is something you just can't count on in the Postseason.. he needs help. There is NO player in the NBA that can stop Aaron Brooks or Chris Paul 1 on 1. Certainly a 18 year old Ricky Rubio isnt going to do it.
