Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Quick... what was Ourtlaw's PER in this year's playoffs? He did NOT have a good playoff run. He was remarkably inconsistent and he was not a productive player. His PER in this year's playoffs? Let's pay attention to this. Let's all say it together. Let's memorize it. 6.3. Terrible? Definitely. Impressive? Definitely not. If he were a defensive stopper, this could be more acceptable. But he's not. He's an offensive player that doesn't shoot that well and who doesn't do much of ANYTHING well. Ugh. Quick... what was Batum's PER in this year's playoffs? He did NOT have a good playoff run. He was remarkably inconsistent and he was not a productive player. His PER in this year's playoffs? Let's pay attention to this. Let's all say it together. Let's memorize it. 6.1. Terrible? Yep. Impressive? Definitely not. Ugh. Still think Hedo wouldn't be a significant improvement? In general, scoring is a lot lower during the play-offs. The competition is much better than the average regular season opponent, the pace is slower and naturally the average PER goes down due to the lower scoring. So, it's no surprise that Hedo's PER was lower in the play-offs. His scoring, rebounds and assists were all down compared to his regular season averages, but he still averaged 15.8/4.5/4.8 in this year's play-offs and 17.5/6.4/5.5 the previous year. Our two small forwards combined averaged 11.0/3.5/0.7 (in equivalent minutes). Still think Hedo isn't significant upgrade? And, for those who claim Rudy is a better player than Hedo. His PER in the play-offs was 11.4 and he averaged 7.5/2.8/1.0. You'll may to play the small sample size card, but that's one of the benefits of adding Hedo, he has a much larger body of proven play-off performance than Outlaw or Batum. You may also try to play the age card, and one would hope Outlaw and Batum would get better with more play-off experience (one would hope, PERs in the 6 range are absolutely horrible), but given the choice, I'd rather have a guy who has proven he can contribute in the post season than bank on guys who may take several years of additional play-off experience to reach that same level. So, bring in Hedo, let him help the young team advance in the play-offs, like he did in Orlando. Trade Outlaw for an upgrade at starting PG, or back-up power forward and groom Batum to be Hedo's eventual replacement. BNM
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? PER in the playoffs, I would suspect, is a little misleading because you play against better competition night in night out - and PER is standardized to the league performance as a whole during the regular season (including all the crap teams that did not make the playoffs). So, someone that has a 13.2 PER going all the way to the finals and playing against formidable competition - would have probably had something like 15 or 16 PER if the performance was standardized to the playoffs run only. In other words - not as bad as these numbers show. Just a point to consider...
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I don't know why you are bothering to compare him to Outlaw and Batum. Seems kind of a straw man argument. Nobody on this board is going to argue that Turkoglu is a worse player than those guys. Obviously, if my choice is last year's SF lineup or Turkoglu/Batum, I'm taking Turkoglu/Batum. The question is, "Is he the most talented, best value small forward available, who actually fits the needs of our team?" On that mark, I really have to wonder. For what we actually need (defense, a third/fourth scoring option, toughness) I have a hard time picking him as my top target, especially when you add in the higher salary he'll command. I'm definitely more of a Ron Artest guy. A guy who, by the way, put up nearly identical statistics to Hedo in the playoffs last year while also playing far, far better defense. Hell, imagine he signs with the Cavs and we get Turkoglu. When our teams play, who do you think wins that matchup? (It's sort of a trick question, because Artest will be their team's best defender and will of course be guarding Brandon Roy.) Still, I bet Artest has a much bigger impact on the game.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? This idiotic statement never, ever gets old! How about the fact that if you look at the home and aways splits, Hedo played like complete ass at home throughout the playoffs. How about the fact that he is freaking 30 years old and will be 35 when his contract ends. How about the fact that I haven't seen you post a damn thing that makes me think you are an NBA expert. Rather, you are just another fan with an opinion. Learn manners and respect, then post.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? This is the truth. Hedo is the best available option for Portland that KP is willing to go after (Artest is the very best option, but KP doesn't like his fit in the culture more then likely).
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Finally. KP is doing his job. He has to look at worst case and best case scenarios. Webster not being healthy is a worst case scenario. We need to prepare for the worst. Yes 5 years is not an ideal contract for a 30 year old. But that is the advantage of free agency for players. They get over paid. But in 4 years will it matter if we are over the cap? Maybe his expiring contract will be worth a lot at that time.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? That is absolutely true. It's also a question of sample size... even for a team that makes it to the playoffs, there just aren't that many games, and a real clunker or two might hurt more than a very good game or three. If Hedo was a 19-22 PER guy during the regular season, I honestly would not be concerned at ALL about a 13.2 PER in the playoffs... but he's not. He is a sub-15 PER guy. He slightly underperformed in terms of PER in the playoffs, but it was not a huge dropoff. I bring up the 13.2 PER, though, to counter the idea that he had a "great" playoff run. He was a key contributor to the Magic in their run, no doubt, but overall he wasn't statistically impressive. Ed O.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Yes. I think BNM wasted a lot of keystrokes arguing a point that no one cares much about. Ed O.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Is Artest an option? He has said his first choice is to stay in Houston. His second choice seems to be Cleveland, followed by the Lakers. We would be, at best, his 4th choice. Do you want to loose out on an upgrade at SF (Hedo) chasing a guy we probably have no realistic shot at getting? Funny you should mention Artest. He's exactly one of the reasons we need Hedo. We got beat by Houston because we didn't have a reliable 3rd scoring optiopn beyond Roy and Aldridge. This let Battier and Artest focus on shutting down Roy. If we had had Hedo, I seriously think we would have won that series. Hedo would have given us that 3rd scoring option, and one of Artest/Battier would have had to guard Hedo, making things easier for Roy. Hedo also would have helped facilitate our offense, which often times ground to a complete halt in the Houston series. He would have been able to get the ball into Oden and Aldridge in the low post - something our guards struggled to do. It certianly would have been a much different series. Whether Artest stays in Houston, goes to Cleveland or the Lakers, I think adding Hedo gives us a better chance against all of those teams for the reasons I mentioned above. BNM
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Really? Comparing him to our current small forwards is a waste of time? So, what are our (realistic) options at SF if we don't get Hedo? The guys we have on the roster failed miserably in the play-off series against Houtson. If we would have had Hedo, I seriously think we would have won that series. Do you disagree? If the options are add Hedo, or keep what we have, what is your preference? BNM
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I'd keep what we have. Guys gain experience through the playoffs, they'll hopefully learn to play better. My preference than to overpay for a guy who is getting older and can disrupt our core a bit (i.e. the RUDY situation)
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I agree. If we had had Hedo or Vince Carter or any number of adequate-or-better SFs, we would have won. Add Hedo. Letting our cap space lapse would not be wise IMO. With that being said, I don't think that saving up this space to get Hedo is a good use of the capspace given his age and his statistical inefficiency. Ed O.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I haven't actually seen him spell out anything you've said here other than the point that his first choice is to stay in Houston. He's getting lots of buzz about Cleveland because they seem to be the courting him. His agent has said he wouldn't mind playing in LA if things didn't work out in Houston. But I'd love to see a link that demonstrates him actually listing his priorities. I doubt it exists. Truth is that he'll make the same decision most free agents make--go to the city that pays him the most. I think Portland can be that city if it comes down to a bidding war. (Hopefully it doesn't.) The real issue, though, isn't that Artest doesn't want to come here. It's that Portland management, at least if you believe the media, hasn't made any effort to at least lure him in because they've put their eggs in the Hedo basket. I find that pretty disappointing.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Adding Hedo is definitely better than standing pat and not using the cap space. This is probably the last time in 10 years that we will go into the free agent period with significant available cap space. Moving forward, Roy will get a max. extension, Aldridge will get a big extension, Oden will eventually get a raise, etc. Unlike Detroit, we don't have the choice of spending now or waiting until next summer. We spend it now, or lose it. If Hedo is the best realistic option, he's better than standing pat, doing nothing and losing our cap space forever. Even if we overpay to get him, it doesn't really impact our roster flexibility much in the future. We'll be over the cap. with, or without Hedo. So, we'll have to rely on exceptions to sign new players either way. BNM
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I know. We agree. It's a question of whether Hedo is the best use of our cap space. I definitely do not feel that he is. Ed O.
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? Who would be the best use of our cap space and do we have a realistic shot at getting them? BNM
Re: Do We Even Need TurkeyBoy? I definitely agree that he is no superstar - but his PER is probably not as good as you would hope, during the playoffs - because when they needed to create a bucket it was Hedo and...? The defense knew it would go to him and they would concentrate on stopping him. (Which, btw - proves without any doubts that Roy is a super-star, given that his PER in the playoffs, with Houston draping two defenders and a blind referee on him actually went up to a magnificent 25.9). Hedo's playoffs was very nice. Great? No, I agree with you - it was not great, but for a good role-player thrust into the primary play-maker position for a team that went to the finals... It was very nice. While he missed a couple of stupid free-throws that could have iced another win at the finals - overall - he not only did not embarrass himself, he actually did himself some good. At the end of the day - what are our other options? Ron-Ron? Maybe an upgrade on defense - but he is a head-case, he can, offensively, throw as many games for you as he wins you and he is not a great play-maker. Miller? I am not a fan. Yes, he is a playmaker - but he can not shoot the 3 and there are reports of him being a locker-room issue. Ariza? An older Batum. Nice to have - but I would rather go for a different skill than reproduce what we already have in Batum. Kidd - Way too old What else is there? Personally, I think this will be a nice addition - it will take some pressure off Roy, it will help getting the ball down low in the post to the big boy (who is really the key to a championship run), he can shoot the 3, he does not seem like a head-case in any way, shape or form and he makes some of our more attractive trade chips easier to move (namely, Outlaw) because he is an upgrade on them. Overall - it is not a slam dunk - but it is clearly a very nice upgrade.
My Final Word on Hedo Lest some of the knuckleheads around here think I have an axe to grind against Hedo, I really don't. It appears we are going to sign him and I hope the very best for him and it all works out. I may think it's a mistake, but a Blazer is a Blazer.
