If the Bulls get AI, is Hinrich Available?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Boob-No-More, Jul 3, 2009.

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  1. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Getting Hinrich for Blake/Outlaw would be a great follow-up move. Even though neither player is an impact player themselves, I'd actually be very happy with an off-season comprised of (essentially) a Blake/Outlaw for Hinrich/Turkoglu swap. I think it strengthens the team very nicely while preserving the core. In other words, it makes the team better right away without shortening the window at all.
     
    Minstrel, Jul 3, 2009
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  2. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    About $50M difference.
     
    Rastapopoulos, Jul 3, 2009
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  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The Bulls have $1M in LT space.

    I don't see any way Iverson plays for $1M, no matter what Detroits flexibility is. I don't see the Bulls paying the LT ever, and I don't see them tossing away 2010 cap space (which they have $25M or so) on the 34 year old Iverson, who looks washed up or at least seriously declining.

    The Bulls didn't seem willing to pay the LT and lose some of that cap space on their leading scorer the past four seasons. It looks like they deliberately maneuvered themselves into a position to force themselves to not be able to resign Gordon, and they made that decision last summer when they rescinded a ~$10M/season offer to him.

    Further, I don't see the Bulls doing Gordon a favor by using their Bird rights or any other rights to sign him to a longer deal for more money.

    In a perfect world, the Bulls get Detroit to take Hinrich off their hands for a future draft pick, to free up space to resign Gordon, but I think that boat has sailed.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 3, 2009
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  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    And given the Bulls guard situation, without Gordon, they basically have a 3 G rotation of Rose/Salmons/Hinrich, with Hinrich potentially going to see 40 MPG.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 3, 2009
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  5. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    So - what do you think of our Blake + Outlaw for Hinrich suggestion? Not only do Blake and Outlaw's contracts expire in the Summer of '10, they aren't even fully guaranteed for THIS season. But I thought Gar Forman (is that his name?) was saying you're not trading Hinrich?
     
    Rastapopoulos, Jul 3, 2009
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  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Seriously, I think that Paxson has had a man crush on Hinrich since day 1. He can play both G positions, and I don't think that Blake replaces that. The Bulls would have to keep Blake at least for a season, and they'd probably keep Outlaw for insurance as well.

    From the Bulls' perspective, it's the reverse of consolidation. They're trading the best player in the deal for two lesser players.

    What the Bulls really need is a PF/C type who can give them easy baskets in the post, and a long term SG to pair with Rose. Hinrich is 29 and Salmons is 30.

    Speaking of reverse consolidation... How would you take it if the Bulls offered Deng and Hinrich for Roy?

    In Deng you get your starting SF for a decade (he's 23). In Hinrich you get your PG. You'd play Rudy at SG. From the perspective you are getting 2 guys who hugely upgrade your two weakest positions, it's a "better" deal than Blake & Outlaw for Hinrich, IMO.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 3, 2009
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  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    But didn't Paxson agree to trade Hinrich only to have Pritchard back out?

    And you're forgetting: this is SUMMER OF 2010! BEST FA BONANZA EVER! That's where you get your star players.

    But again, you're only looking at it from a talent perspective. The Bulls obviously don't care to overpay for talent, or they'd've kept Gordon. They already overpaid for Hinrich and he plays the same position as Derrick Rose. Blake gives you a backup PAID like a backup (who has actually played decently alongside Allen Iverson, so he has guarded 2Gs - he's about the same size as Hinrich) plus a good scoring wing. Both dirt cheap! With expiring contracts!

    You think you're going to get that for Hinrich? Man's paid $10M and doesn't start at PG for his own team.

    Hey! Let's keep it civil, shall we?
     
    Rastapopoulos, Jul 3, 2009
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  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Ha.

    Goose and gander. Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes. And all that. I hope you see how your offers come across to the other team...

    If the Bulls could have traded Kirk for RLEC, they'd have $25M in cap space for the 2010 FA class AND the cap space to have resigned Gordon. From that perspective, it made sense at that time. As it is now, they have $25M in cap space and the cap space to retain Hinrich (2nd best outcome, but it could be worse).
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 3, 2009
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  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Huh? You do know that you don't need cap space to re-sign your own free agents, right? You do understand that the Bulls could perfectly well have paid Gordon as much as he wanted and more - but just chose not to? I hope your happiness doesn't depend on believing that Bulls' brass nobly tried to retain Gordon but were just hamstrung. They didn't want him, plain and simple.
     
    Rastapopoulos, Jul 3, 2009
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  10. axs88

    axs88 Active Member

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    I bet he knows... he probably meant that they'll have "luxury tax space" --fortunately a rather unfamiliar concept for us.
     
    axs88, Jul 3, 2009
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  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    RLEC would have been $12M in flexibility in the sense that they could have signed Gordon for up to $12M and still be in the same situation they are.

    I realize the Bulls could sign every one of their players with Bird Rights to MAX deals and well exceed the LT threshold. However, Paxson has said repeatedly that the Bulls will never exceed the LT threshold. So that would be a hard cap, by choice, and that is how it is.

    As it stands, the Bulls are $1M under the LT threshold. To make any trade, or to sign any FA to even the MLE that would put them $1 over the LT, they won't do it.

    The Bulls management are assholes. They said they wanted to retain Gordon, but made no offer. They dicked around about signing him at every opportunity. The team is not about winning, it's about being highly profitable and putting as much $$$ in the owner's pockets. Look at Forbes and you'll see they're in the top 3 most profitable teams, with an obscene $50M in profit.

    Like I said, Paxson has a hardon for Hinrich, the team doesn't need any flexibility anymore since Gordon will be gone, they'll have the flexibility (under the actual cap) next summer to sign two MAX contract UFAs, so I don't see them making a trade or taking on Iverson for anything more than the $1M they're under the LT threshold. I don't see them dealing Hinrich to save $3M to be able to pay Iverson $4M, either. And so on.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 3, 2009
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  12. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I wonder if it'd be worthwhile for the Bulls to just go ahead and clear the decks at this point.

    Kirk + Lou to the Blazers (under the cap) for Blake, Rudy and the rights to Jeff Pendergraph.

    Super cheap, with room for two max guys next year. Probably gonna suck, but at least they’ll suck cheaply and maybe get better.

    1- Rose, Blake
    2- Rudy, Salmons
    3- Salmons, Johnson, Tyrus
    4- Tyrus,TiT, Pendergraph, Gibson
    5- Noah, Miller, Gray
     
    MikeDC, Jul 4, 2009
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  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If they renounce Tyrus, they'll have room for 2 Max FAs next summer. I think it's make or break time for him. On the other hand, if Hinrich and particularly Deng can't be relied on for 82 games, it's going to be tough with or without them.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 4, 2009
    #33
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