Aldridge for Thomas Revisited

I think that's generally overstated anyway, since teams don't bring in reserves as "units" and teams don't substitute at the same time. So there's no particularly good way to determine, a priori, exactly what competition a player faces just by role.

Now, it's true that a normal reserve probably plays a bit more against reserves than starters, due to coaches sometimes trying to give their starter a break when the other starter is out (but that's far from a rule)...but Oden wasn't used like a normal reserve. He started some of the games he played and even the games he didn't, he was often brought in early.

 

Greg started far more games in his rookie year then he came off the bench. If that weren't the case, you'd be the one with a point... but thanks for sharing your opinion

STOMP

 

Here's a list off the top of my head:

1) Your coach is a total idiot for not playing a guy who averages 10 points per minute, one minute a game
2) Thomas has the worst stamina is the game.
3) Thomas is a hot head and gets ejected after going off on teams for that one minute.
4) Thomas fouls out in 1 minute of every game.

Per/36 stats are ok, but total stats are more meaningful.

Greg's Per 36 minutes stats would indicate he had a great year, when in fact, he didn't.

 

Yes, but if Oden also plays fewer than starter minutes (which he did) then he could miss minutes that Howard played and still end up playing almost all his minutes against Howard. Due to playing fewer minutes than Howard.

I'm not saying that that's how it actually played out every game, but your logic doesn't prove or disprove what percentage of Oden's minutes were played against starters and reserves.

It may not, but I think the difference between what his advanced numbers would look like as a "starter" or "reserve" who played the same number of minutes is pretty minimal. Ginobili also comes off the bench, but I think his PER pretty well encapsulates his value. It's possible that it doesn't, but I don't think total difference in quality of competition changes much, overall.

 

Lol... what a ridiculous statement. If we're comparing the value of two players (which sure seems to be the point of this thread) then their actual season stats are a far better way to do so, as opposed to per 36 stats.

It's a pretty simple concept: Better players play longer. How is that apples/oranges? Per 36 is apples/oranges, since it's skewing reality.

Lamarcus was our second best player last year. He played big minutes and he was a huge part of opposing teams game plans. Defenses focused on shutting him down. Now while Tyrus improved, he's not to that level yet. That's probably why he only played 27 minutes a game.

 

Not meant as a joke:

Is TT a low post threat?

 

Nothing you said even comes close to disproving anything in my first paragraph... Actual stats are a far better way to judge players than per36 and in no way is it comparing apples and oranges. That's just a fact, how can you even argue otherwise?

 

I'm waiting for the punchline...

TT would be a good bench player on a playoff team. He's a hustle player. A rich man's JYD.

 

No, actual. It's a fact. Now if I had said something like, "Per 36 has absolutely no value in judging players efficiency on the court" then you may have an argument. Sadly, that's not the case. All I said was actual stats show the value of a player far better than per 36.

You said actual stats are apples/oranges, that's laughable. The two players your comparing may be apples/oranges, but comparing their actual stats sure isn't.

Seriously? That's all you could come up with?

Gilbert played 2 games this year coming off of major injury. He has a history of a having a much higher production. Obviously this last year he did suck relatively. And?

You can take a two game sample size and make Steve Blake look better than Brandon Roy. What's that prove?

 

I'm not a big fan of per-36 stats in general. They represent a hypothetical condition - what a player would produce if he played 36 minutes. Truth is, we don't know. A guy who is used to playing 24 MPG, may get fatigued, or at least pace himself and conserve energy i he has to play 36 MPG. Thomas is an energy guy. Can he sustain that same level of energy if his minutes jump from 27 to 36 MPG? If he does play more minutes, and a assume a greater role on offense, opposing teams will start building their game plan around stopping him, etc. This could negatively impact his per-36 production. You don't really know how a guy will produce per-36 minutes over an entire season, until he actually averages 36 MPG or an entire season.

I prefer actual stats, because they represent EXACTLY what a player actually produced - no hypotheticals or extrapolations necessary. If Thomas was good enough to deserve 36 MPG, he'd be getting 36 MPG. He's not, and he doesn't. It's as simple as that. It's not like the Bulls have some all-star or future Hall of Famer eating up minutes in front of him. If he continues to improve, he'll get more minutes and then we can better judge his actual production against Aldridge's actual production.

BTW, Aldridge's per-36 numbers and PER were better all three of his seasons than what Thomas posted this year. He became a full-time starter his second season and his per-36 numbers were 18.3 pts/7.9 reb/ 1.7 blk with a PER of 18.5 during his second season. Thomas may eventually be as good as Aldridge (I doubt it as he lacks Aldridge's offensive skills), but he's currently at least two years behind Aldridge.

This wasn't the worst trade in Bulls history, or the worst draft, but Thomas and Kryhapa for Aldridge was a bad trade.

BNM

 

Rookie coming off microfracture knee surgery playing on the slowest paced team in the league.

4th year player, healthy, playing on the 2nd fastest paced team in the league.

What's your point?

Rookie big man = inconsistent. No surprise there. Again, I fail to see your point - much less what it has to do with Aldridge vs. Thomas. Was Thomas a rookie this year? No. Was he coming off microfracture knee surgery? No. So, what's the tie in between the Oden vs. Lee per-36 comparison and the Aldridge vs. Thomas debate?

BNM

 

Depends. How many minutes do they play? Chances are a guy who averages a point per minute that plays 36 MPG is a far better player than a guy who scores 2 point per minute but only averages 1 MPG.

So, who is a better scorer, the guy who averages 36 PPG, or the guy who averages 2 PPG?

This may be an extreme example, but I think it proves the point that per-36 numbers should be taken with a grain of salt and don't tell the whole picture.

BNM

 

His PER is only slightly above the league average for all players. So, he's a slightly above average player in his 3rd season.

Aldridge's PER was 19.1. 20.0 is considered a borderline all-star. BTW, like Thomas, Aldridge got of to a slow start this past season. His PER over the last four months of the season was above 20.

So, you have two 3rd year players - one slightly above average and one near all-star level. Again not the worst trade ever, but not a good one.

BNM

 

Oden started 39 games and came off the bench 22 times. He played roughly 2/3 of his minutes against starters. His stats reflect his production against starters more than they do against back-ups.

BNM