if youre looking for a starting caliber PF or even 20 MPG PF he is not the guy, but he is def a guy who could spell LaMarcus for 6 minutes each half. and I didnt compare the seasons amount.. I said that just because he didnt play doesnt mean he cant play. And while they arent on the same level of potential.. I remember Jermaine Oneal not beating people out for a while too.
You're right, Ike did have some productive games for Sacramento. Although, I don't think that's representative of his ability. I think it's silly to discount that so many coaches have dismissed him so openly. I fully agree that coaches can make mistakes, but in Ike's case it's been every coach. Any examples you can give? I just don't think he's good enough, I really don't. I remember that the Blazers often lost leads with Ike in the game. Can it fully be attributed to him? Probably not. He's an inadequate backup IMO and in the opinions of every person who has coached him at the professional level.
I really don't think Ike can spell LaMarcus effectively for 6 minutes per half. I'm fully aware that coaches make mistakes, but I'm not inclined to think every coach at the professional level who has coached Ike has thought he isn't good enough to play regular minutes. You think Frye is a horrible player that Ike couldn't beat out? Look at the rest of Ike's career, he's played behind players much less than Frye. I hope Ike can go to a team like New Orleans and get some PT and try and disprove me and the rest of the coaches. He's a good guy.
It's hard to follow along if/when you can simply define terms incorrectly and expect others to know what you mean. Hyperbole is based on truth... not the polar opposite of what the truth is. Diogu is actually very good at making layups. You complaining about him being bad is simply making stuff up that's not at all accurate... not hyperbolic. If you just wanted to make fun of him because you didn't like him, you might as well have called him too old or too Chinese. Ed O.
As a Blazer, he missed a number of easy opportunities such as layups. That's not false. Your opinion that what I said is the opposite of what the truth is. I don't have a personal axe to grind with the guy, it just gets tiring when people keep asking for the guy who can't beat Channing Fye and plenty of other players who are less than stellar in his career. Every coach he's played for determined that he's not good enough to get regular minutes. That's not making fun of him, that's just a fair assessment. It's funny to see you get so sensitive about a guy who isn't worth much more than Shavlik Randolph, if at all at the NBA level according to his coaches. Bravo!
I don't think it's fully representative of his ability either, of course. I don't expect him to average 30/15 as a starter. My point is that his per-minute efficiency is not necessarily a pure mirage. I'm sure he's benefited to some extent by small sample sizes and limited minutes, but I think his play for Sacramento (and for Golden State, before he ended up in Nelson's doghouse) illustrates that there's also talent behind those numbers. As for every coach minimizing his role, isn't it also interesting that he keeps getting jobs? If he really weren't an NBA-caliber player, why does he keep turning up on NBA rosters? The thing is, coaches, while certainly very knowledgeable about basketball, are just as susceptible to prejudice as anyone else. They see an undersized power forward who doesn't "look good" when he plays, it's not terribly unsurprising that they never give him much chance to prove himself. Frye "looks" much more like a basketball player than Diogu...that doesn't necessarily mean he's actually a better basketball player. Sure. In baseball, for example, Jack Cust and Ryan Howard were kept out of the major leagues for years because they didn't fit conceptions of what a good hitter was...they hit for low average, didn't have speed and weren't good defenders. But, to different extents, they've been successful now that they've been given a shot. Even if that is true, a large portion of that is probably who he's backing up. The team is worse when he's in the game instead of Aldridge. Not necessarily because he's awful, but because he's a definite downgrade on Aldridge. Looking at his +/- last year, he had a negative one with Portland and a positive one with Sacramento. The numbers, though, show that he rebounds a good percentage of missed shots while he's in the game and scores at a very efficient clip. His defense isn't good but, again, we're talking about a backup for 10-12 minutes. A guy who can rebound and score efficiently seems like a very good player to have soak up a few minutes per game, even if he has significant weaknesses to his game. He may not have been beloved by coaches, but there is evidence, at least, that he could fill a minor role adequately or even well.
I loved how he rebounded at times, but he was a horrible shooter from close range. I remember multiple times where he would get 3-4 offensive rebounds, but it would all be from his own misses. I think we'd be better off with someone who could actually make a shot. For all the "banger" talk, it's important to remember we do still have Oden/Joel as our center. Not saying we should get someone like Frye though.
Ryan Howard was kept out of the league because they had Jim Thome at 1B, not because of a conception of baseball skill. As for the hyperbole, or "obvious and intentional exaggeration" it was hyperbole. He was making a rather obvious exaggeration of what happened in a small sample size for us in Portland as a picture of his overall skill. Like he said, if you couldn't catch on to that, and instead decided to make this post like every single other topic on this board into a semantics argument, then maybe internet discussion just isn't for you. As for Ike, no thanks. He's a clear cut grass is greener player. Since people decided to jump on Frye as an awful awful awful WNBA player last season, theobvious choice was that Ike was the ideal banger we have so sorely lacked. And his 2 games in Sacramento were the proof they needed. So Frye's last week with us the season before can stand up the same in the argument as proof he is a solid player, and we can all agree that neither was a good backup for what we needed. But especially not Ike, because he sucks.
He was a really good rebounder, I thought.... but yes, he couldn't make a layup. I remember wishing he would just pass back out after getting the offensive board.
His career rebounding percentage is 14. Channing's is 13.6. So Channing is charmin soft, but Ike is the banger we lack? no.
It was absolutely due to a conception of baseball skill. Obviously, he would have been up sooner had they had no one at his position, but they felt no urgency about getting him up because they considered him a mediocre prospect. That doesn't actually correctly characterize anyone's argument in this thread. Solid strawman skills!
I'm just saying, when he played for us, he went after the ball pretty well. Wait... hold on.... I can play the HYPERBOLE game too. Ike was the best rebounder of all time!!!!1!1 He's better than Dennis Rodman ever was!!!!!
Mediocre prospect? Are you serious? His second season(2002), first full seasons, he was ranked as the team's 8th best prospect. Season after that he was league MVP. Ranked as team's 3rd best prospect. Following season, another MVP, and named the TOP player in the Phillies' system. No, he was not viewed as a mediocre prospect. Sorry. As for the strwman, don't know what to say. If Frye was playing well last season, would people have been clamoring to see Ike?
I love how this is the 2nd Diogu thread to start bickering, in the last 2 months or so. I dont think Ike had this many threads when he was a Blazer
Sorry, but you're proving my point. No prospect with that sort of accomplishment record only gets called up for his rookie season at age 25. I'm not saying he actually was a mediocre prospect (quite the opposite), I'm saying that he was undervalued because he didn't hit for average and lacked athleticism. And before you claim that it was because "they had Thome," please remember that they traded for Thome with Howard already in their system and doing well. They explicitly blocked him, something that a franchise virtually never does with a prospect that they value. Well, one thought: actually respond to the points made by someone, rather than write some dismissive rant that doesn't address anything anyone has actually said in this thread. Obviously not, because then Portland would have their backup power forward. That says nothing about the actual reasons why people think Diogu might be a decent low-minute reserve.
Watch out! You're going to have the "producer" come and call you out and say you're talking out of your ass!
It's incredible how divisive Ike Diogu is to Blazer fans, NBA front offices and coaches don't think twice about the guy and yet we're well on our way to 3 pages of the guy? LMAO.
