actually I am far from an Oden apologist, check my posts thats fine by me. I guarantee you wont find em.
What are Oden's strenghts? He has bad footwork, hands made of stone and makes questionable decisions. There is not an offensive system out there that will change that - Oden has to put in the work on his own to get better. Something he refused to do when the Blazers asked him to stay in town this summer and work on his game. Ben Wallace was a role player who was surrounded by 4 fantastic players in Detroit. His impact was way overrated in the media.. Joel Przybilla would have been an equal contributor on those Piston teams. Kevin Durant is a superstar.
Dwight Howard just led his team to the NBA finals and is easily a top 5 NBA player right now. When you say Oden will be better both Offensively and Defensively than Dwight Howard - you lose all credibility and become an Apologist.
First of all, I DID NOT say his impact would be in the scoring department. I don't know if you just didn't read my response or you just chose to ignore it. When I said a change of system. I meant, it may take a change in the head coaching position and system to get him to come around. Defensive system could be one area. A system that will take Greg's talents, polish them and highlight them in a way that is very impactful for the team. All it takes is putting Greg in the right spots and position defensively. Poppavich and his system is one that would do this. His brute size and strength can and will take over from there. I guarantee you if Poppavich ever decides to take this roster. It is all over for the nba. For about ten years after that. Where is his impact going to come from? Defense and rebounding. Just like Wallace's except in much higher magnitude, for many more years.
Oh so when I said Oden will be an equal on Offense.. that means better now? Sorry I understand now. And Defense why cant he be better? I have heard you say before that his offense stinks, but where is the bashing on his defense? I dont see how his Defense (his strength) and saying he will be better than Dwight on Defense, is his strength.. how am I an apologist again?
Oden has done nothing to suggest that he will be better than Dwight Howard at anything. Oden's defense is bad - he has slow feet - reaches with his hands and leaves his feet at the wrong time. His foul trouble did not come from a lack of experience like the apologists suggest - they came from his inability to play at the speed of the NBA.
Oden has shown enough to make me feel that he could be devastating force defensively for years to come.
Oden needs his own Big Man Coach. These young big men need a proven center to teach them the stuff (footwork, angles, keeping the ball high, etc.) they didnt learn in college.
I have and will pound this into the ground. Poppovich and David Robinson. Hire Gregg. Bring David with you Popp.
ah so since I never said Odens foul problems came from lack of experience.. I'm not an apologist then? do I have your approval?! *crosses fingers* All those problems you mentioned on Defense I fully expect to get better.
I'm sorry you are factually wrong: Per 36 and advanced. Dwight Howard FG%.520 ORB% 12.2 TRB% 17.3 TS%.571 Dtrg 104 Ortg 111 Ppg 13.2 Trpg 11.2 Greg Oden FG% .564 ORB% 15.7 TRB% 20.0 TS% .599 Dtrg 104 Ortg 116 PPg 14.8 TRpg 11.6 Oden is ALREADY better on a per minute basis then Dwight was in his totally healthy non-MF recovery rookie season on a crappy team that was trying to develop him at all costs. Dwight edged him in assists and steals and FT%. On a per minute basis Oden was better at every other aspect of the game. Oden will develop just like Dwight did. Oden is bigger and has more reach by quite a bit. He may never recover the athleticism he had at OSU (on par with D. Ho a freak of nature) which speaks to his skill and size that he was better then Dwight in his rookie season. http://www.basketball-reference.com...um=1&p1=odengr01&y1=2009&p2=howardw01&y2=2005 Oden's problem is foul trouble which comes from footspeed which in turn comes from not doing any lower body heavy lifting until May 2009. I'm sorry but it's the HATERS who need apologists. Greg hasn't done anything wrong. Oh and he worked out all summer with Bayno in Ohio. So really you have opinion and not much else...
Per 36's are garbage.. Oden can't stay healthy enough or out of foul trouble long enough to make his per #'s worth looking at. Also, don't forget that Howard was 19 years old as a rookie (straight from HS) and Oden was 2 years removed from a freshman season at college. Stop Apologizing for Oden being very mediocre and injury prone. Just accept it and move on.
I'm going to start getting pretty worried about Oden if I dont' see some major improvement from him this year, especially in (as everyone has already mentioned) the foul department and his back-to-the-basket game. I've always felt that you can tell which guys are going to be really, really good by the end of their second year in the NBA. Guys that can *really* play are usually making "the leap" by then. I've tried to think of examples of guys who struggled mightily for the first few years of their career only to wind up being true stars, and I could only think of one: Chauncey Billups. I can't think of one elite big man who was not at least a little dominant by the end of their second year. Duncan, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Yao, Howard, Dirk, Garnett, Malone, Amare, etc.... ALL those guys were well on their way to super stardom at an early point in their careers. Conversely, the guys who are mediocre at best (think Dampier or Ostertag) all kinda struggled from day one and never stopped. I know there are injury issues in Oden's case, but for that "historical precedent" reason alone, I'm going to be worried if Oden doesn't take major strides this year. And I think the team may have to decide if they still want to sink major, major dollars into the development of the player.
Zach Randolph's per-36 during his rookie and second years predicted almost perfectly his stats as a starter: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01.html Advanced stats beyond the per-36's also show Zach's tendencies in the rebounding and shooting areas of the game. Also, his win shares were about the same from his second year onward. What Oden will be next year will more accurately reflect his career path, to be certain. But the advanced stats do show an accurate picture of career trajectory to the point where we can start predicting a little based on the data. Here's a couple others where per-36 was a good predictor: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robincl02.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kerseje01.html Here's a couple of examples of players who have a nice fat bell-curve of improvement: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html
See the post directly above this one Hank. Per 36 and advanced are not crap. Your theorizing and repeating of the media echo-chamber is what stinks in this thread. Feel free to claim Durant is better then Oden but to call him a bust is fricking ridiculous by ANY reasonable standard. So was Dwight Howard recovering from MF surgery in his Senior year of Highschool? Quit apologizing for your lack of actual facts, accept that you are making stuff up and move on.
