Maybe. But if I tell you the interstate highway system is the work of the platypus, does that mean I'm correct? barfo
This is all very true, how lucky we are! Although I think you might slightly exaggerating the temperate zone narrowness. The chemical atmosphere helps regulate our temperature quite nicely too.
I commented on this assertion in a different thread - I don't buy it. I don't think nearby stars need be the same age as ours, much less planets. Maybe there aren't tens of thousands. Maybe there are only a few. Maybe they don't use radio. I don't see any reason to assume they are exactly like us except on a different planet. barfo
Seriously, as far as we know in physics, which i suppose a lack of complete knowledge is your basis, there is no other way to send communication then electric/magnetic waves. Perhaps they know of some kind of sub space transmission (i've revealed too much of my nerd-dom) or particle entanglement communication.
Ask Uhura to put their sub space transmissions through the universal translator. Yes, maybe they've figured out how to use gravitons to communicate. Or maybe they just don't communicate over long distances. We had a civilization for hundreds/thousands of years before we came up with radio, after all. barfo
Stars of the same class as the sun. I wouldn't assume that any other kind can support life. You may not realize it, but if you're right, then drake's equation says there's no life anywhere. The Drake equation states that: where: N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy in which communication might be possible; and R* is the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxyfp is the fraction of those stars that have planetsne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planetsfℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some pointfi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent lifefc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into spaceL is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space Considerable disagreement on the values of most of these parameters exists, but the values used by Drake and his colleagues in 1961 were: R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy) fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets) ne = 2 (stars with planets will have 2 planets capable of supporting life) fl = 1 (100% of these planets will develop life) fi = 0.01 (1% of which will be intelligent life) fc = 0.01 (1% of which will be able to communicate) L = 10,000 years (which will last 10,000 years) Drake's values give N = 10 × 0.5 × 2 × 1 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10,000 = 10. (Your fp would be on the order of a handful / 15000. Do the math for yourself
Disagree. From what you posted, Drakes equation refers specifically to civilizations in this galaxy which we can communicate. Not all life anywhere. Besides, we know there is life on earth, even if it isn't intelligent. barfo
not to repeat myself, but we've only "looked" in 2 places out of billions (moon, mars). well, that's a different issue. even if life is abundant in the universe, the intelligence required to send radio signals strong enough to reach other stars could be relatively rare. there's no rule that says that type of intelligence is the inevitable endpoint of evolution. we may be an anomaly. after all life has existed on earth for 3 billion years and has been sending strong radio signals for less than 100.
Do the math. .01 * .01 * 1000 = 1 That would be: i = 0.01 (1% of which will be intelligent life) fc = 0.01 (1% of which will be able to communicate) L = 10,000 years (which will last 10,000 years) That leaves the # of planets that support life at zero.
but the long distance communication was typically fire signals, which we perceive through light, which is... electric and magnetic waves which is also radio waves.
No. It doesn't. First of all, you are limiting it to this galaxy (R*). If you want to talk about all life, you need an R* number for the universe. That will be a number much bigger than 10. I have no idea how big, but lets just say 100,000,000 for laughs. Secondly, fc and fi don't apply if you want to talk about all life and not just intelligent life that can communicate with us. Finally, L will presumably be much longer than 10,000 years since the life is no longer required to communicate with us. Let's say 100,000 years. So then the number of planets that have life in the universe would be N=100,000,000 * 0.5 * 2 * 1 * 100,000 = an obviously big number. barfo
Some astronomers have recently started considering different stars to support life, with planets just closer. This increases the chances only about 3 or 4 times i think though, i honestly forget the numbers, but it does increase.
So? We can't perceive a fire burning on a distant planet. We are talking about communications that we can receive. barfo
my point was that it's still essentially through the same format through-out our entire history, light.
True, but completely irrelevant - unless you are making the point that they'd be likely to develop radio because it is a logical extension of the fundamental tools (em radiation) that they'd already be using. To which I say, maybe. Maybe a chance discovery leads them to leap ahead of us and skip radio altogether in favor of, I don't know, sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads. barfo
Fixed? Does that make you a Muslim? Because they recognize too. Or are you a Hindu? Jew? Mormon? Do you believe in the flying spaghetti monster? It fixes nothing, it comes back to the idea that "my idea that I can not prove in any way shape or form is better than someone else's idea that he can not prove in any way, shape or form". You want to believe in something? Fine. No problems with me. I just can not believe in anything like that where it's validity rests on a long line of people that might (make that certainly) have manipulated it to their own benefit - be it grabbing land, sodomizing choir boys, forcing others to convert or take their belonging... No one expects the Spanish Inquisition... but many seem to support the ideas that made it what it is... Good luck with that. The trouble is that I am talking in philosophy, but you are listening in gibberish.
Multiply by your handful / 15000 and you come up with somewhere between 6 and 25. The .5 number and 2 number are ridiculously optimistic. I think it's optimistic at .2 and .1. Now you're below 1.
