It doesn't matter how hard you have worked if you are still taking a pull up jumper when a layin or a dunk is available. I watched that video and came away nauseous as normal when I saw him passing up easy Gimme's for a harder jump shot.
You are too funny. You can't find one glaring inaccuracy. Because you didn't understand that post that I took the time to rewrite for you, you're grasping at straws in order to blow off the entire case. No biggie. You didn't "confront a myth", you said that it WAS a myth. Big difference. Huge. "I don't want to wade through your novel of a post" could mean that you don't have the time, or that you don't have the ammo. My guess is #2 is correct, but I could be wrong b/c it doesn't seem that you made it through 43 or 51, either. My reasoning? Travis Outlaw said You won't read the "facts", and yet say that I'm making them up? Your money MB quote was from 2006. Who failed in 2007? Just Travis. And why? Not "I was in shape and had a bad asthma day". Not "I workout all summer, and you'll see it in my game". Nope, he said he didn't stay in shape because "he didn't want to get hurt." How about 2008? Just Travis. So Travis Outlaw is the only player on the Portland Trail Blazers who has failed multiple times in the past 3 years. And not once....NOT ONE TIME IN THREE YEARS...has any reporter, coach, player, staff related to the Trail Blazers...not one time has Travis been pulled from a game due to asthma. Not one time has he missed a practice due to asthma. Not one time has he not been able to enter a game, or been reported that he was sick on a road trip. You brought up yourself, 81 and 82 games the last two years. You're wrong on this one, guys. Attacking me doesn't help your case that your boy hasn't stayed in shape in the offseason in the past.
PapaG, I'm not saying he doesn't have it. He does great work helping out kids. For all I know he may be having attacks in the season and, from what you and STOMP posted, the team doesn't comment on medical issues. Fine. That doesn't explain why he admitted that he didn't report to camp in shape in the past. And that's all this thread was about.
no Brian. I've kept it really really simple but unfortunately you're still lost. What am I to do? You're as bad at guessing as you are at reading and comprehending. At 7AM this morning I was sipping coffee and getting ready for work when I started reading your latest. At mistake #2 (both of which I'd already explained in extra simpleton terms) I knew I didn't have the time. And what the hell am I supposed to make of the 2nd part of the jumbled mess above? Wading through stuff like that makes trying to extract a meaning a challenge. Yes I'm confident in saying it's a myth that Travis didn't work out at all in any of the offseasons. That he ever spent the whole summer catfishing since he became a Blazer. You're welcome to your opinion otherwise, but don't try to spin what I claimed as meaning something else easier to argue against... the record of what was said is right here and you just end up looking silly Let me help you with some math. It's 2009 and no one has taken the test let alone failed it... in fact Nate says there won't be a test this year. So the last 3 years that the test has been given are 2008 2007 & 2006... so my "money quote" which MB relays multiple players failing multiple times is spot on relevant. Sorry please proofread before posting even when your super angry. Thanks I know it's difficult to remember stuff, but as it's been stated multiple times in this thread, it has been reported that TO's asthma is at it's worst in the early fall due to increased levels of allergens (things that set his asthma off). If I recall correctly, he specifically has problems with Oregon's mold spores. When the rains come, those get put down and thankfully his issues largely go away. I know that doesn't fit your wants as self described Travis hater, but those of us who do care about facts gain a little insight what he's playing through. see above. I'm all for Nate not letting him use it as an excuse. Opponents won't. I'm sure like most asthma sufferers he has good days and bad during the season but dude's job is to perform regardless. As the medical link I provided detailed, exercise can also be a trigger. Obviously he has it mostly under control probably with medication, but (reportedly) it is especially difficult for him in training camp. How you think the above quote in any way runs contrary to what I've laid out is a I love how you fill your posts with one condescending comment after another and then try to claim that you're some sort of victim of being attacked. Do you have any more nonsense to get off your chest before you explode? If so I won't be reading it until tomorrow as I'm out with the gf tonight... you have a wonderful evening. STOMP
That's good news for me, since I generally rock at comprehension tests. No, you haven't. Not close, either. Post 43 (right after you ah-ha'd! my "iirc"), I posted I knew I didn't have the time. And what the hell am I supposed to make of the 2nd part of the jumbled mess above? Wading through stuff like that makes trying to extract a meaning a challenge.[/quote]I'll go back and fix it. Don't want you having to wade. Nope. Not close. Travis is the only one who's failed multiple years. The only one. 2007. 2008. That's two. Multiple. No one else has failed multiple years. No one failed in 2007 but Travis. No one failed in 2008 but Travis. This shouldn't be this tough. Assuming the entire team failed in 2006, your money quote does nothing to prognosticate the future. Since (in this fantasy world) 15 failed in 2006, and no one but Travis did in 2007, and no one but Travis did in 2008, that means that he's the only one who's failed multiple years. I double-dog dare you to attempt to refute that. I don't get 'super-angry' on message boards, but I will make an attempt to proof better if it makes it easier to understand. Uh, it's never been "reported", so far as this thread or the internet is concerned. PapaG pulled it out (without link or quotes) in Post 34 when discussing my "ignorance"...followed up in post 35 by the first attack on Outlaw in this thread: . That's his commentary, not mine. Wheels, Quick, Freeman, Casey never reported it. Nate and KP never have talked about it. When Travis talks about his failures, he says that he was too afraid of getting hurt to work out all summer. That can't be refuted. In all seriousness, if you have even a shred of linkage/evidence/reporting to this, I'd love to see it. I'm pretty happy with "facts", since I've linked/quoted every assertion I've made in this thread, or else retracted and shown where I was wrong. You haven't. I've spent most of my free time in the last two days looking up every article I could find on Outlaw over the last 3 years, just in case I was missing something that would make me look retarded for not doing enough research and pulling things out of my ass. I can't find a single reported piece in the Oregonian, the Starkville paper, Hoopshype, ESPN, or anywhere else on the first 10 google pages (except this website!!) that talks about his asthma struggles, mold spores, constricted bronchii, etc. Once again, I'm not saying he doesn't have asthma. That's been reported (on nba.com). It's a fact. But so has the fact that he didn't workout at all in 2007 because he was a free agent (Wheels) and took 1/3 of the season to get into shape. In that same May 2008 article Wheels praises how much work Travis is planning on putting in: . Back in Portland in September (spore season, perhaps?) he fails the test. But you will? And are trying to explain his "laziness myth" with it? Can you indulge me in a little game? Every time you say something's been "reported", can you link/footnote/produce/quote it? Because you're getting to the point that you're running from the argument (Travis hasn't worked out much in the offseason in the past, and comes to camp out of shape) and saying things like "severe asthma", "constricted bronchii", "mold spores", asthma season is worst in late September and early October", "especially difficult for him in training camp". The problem is: I haven't found one of those things "reported". Yep. See above. And since I have much more "non-sense" than combustability, you're kind of stuck with me here. And don't worry about me being a victim. EDIT: Just saw that you won't be around tonight. Have fun with the gf. We can start this up again later. Or maybe PapaG has some stuff for me.
It's not an obsession with Outlaw. It's an obsession with making people justify the stuff they post. Maybe that's unhealthy. I didn't post a thing on this thread (partially b/c I can't watch videos at work, and partially b/c I trust the people who say he's got a nice floater and spin move) until STOMP's assertion that Travis' lack of working out in the summer was a "myth created by people not in the know". My obsession is not letting things like that just slide by. I did the same in the LMA contract thread, and in the Draft night thread, and many others. It's as if I'm being discredited and discounted (even with the insane disparity between quotes proving what I'm asserting and the quotes posted about Travis' asthmatic condition being a factor in his "laziness"/"offseason regimen"/whatever) because I chose to not let some B.S. invented to make Travis look in a better light than he is just go on as if it's true. That's my fault. PapaG, you know better than others that I give credit where credit is due, I don't have problems saying I'm wrong (see post 43) and don't pretend to know things I don't. I agree 100% that you know more about asthma in the PDX area than me. I have no reason to doubt your friendship with the asthma specialist. I've seen Travis' clinics (though always in Starkville, I haven't found a report of it in Portland). That google article was funny to me, because the first thing that popped up when I tried to learn about your contention was that June is the worst time. I thought that was funny, not that I was attempting to be an expert. Hence, the What I do doubt is any correlation between anything I just agreed with you on, and the contention that Travis works hard in the offseason and comes to camp in shape. HE HAS SAID THAT HE DOESN'T. He has failed conditioning test in 3 of the four seasons since Nate's done it. He has been the only one who's failed multiple times. Those were the only points I was trying to make or refute. Nothing about his character, his health, his role, his value, etc.
I wouldn't say you're being discredited or discounted. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true, and that you're discounting a very serious medical condition as being a "B.S." excuse for Outlaw. It isn't an excuse, it is a fact. Nobody knows how much his asthma impacts his fall conditioning outside of Travis, his doctor, and possibly the team. So, rather than label a disease such as asthma as "B.S.", some posters, such as me, are adding the disease into the conversation in order to offer a more realistic view of the total picture. Whether it is a reason that Travis fails the intial test, nobody knows. You're the one who seems certain that it doesn't; I am merely pointing out that it is a possibility that must be considered when throwing around pejoratives such as "lazy". Again, though, you seem to be trying to find a way to discount the asthma. Posting (incorrectly) that June is peak season in Oregon appeared to be a way to dull any impact Outlaw's asthma may have on him in the fall. I'm not saying Travis is a hard worker, or comes into camp in shape, or anything like that. I am saying that he has a rather severe asthma condition, and rather than try and discount this fact, you should try and see how it fits into the Outlaw equation without finding ways to eliminate it from the overall picture.
Now this is where the disconnect has been. To talk about the asthma stuff and its impact on his life, his workouts or whatever would probably be a good thread, but it wasn't what I was discussing. The bolded was, and that's it, and I thought that the asthma was what you were using to refute the bolded part. I'd happily listen and read up on stuff (like Stomp's A.M.A. article) that talk about role of asthma in exercise, or how even someone in tip-top shape can be brought low by some mold spores in September in Portland. It'd be fascinating to be a fly on the wall at one of his camps, or have a reporter ask him about what precautions and medicines he takes to still be an NBA-level athlete with his asthma. My only contentions in this thread have been that he has said that in the past he hasn't worked out during the summer, and that he's been the only one to fail multiple years. As I said, it would be informative to me to read anything that talks about how his asthma fits it to the whole picture--it's just that there's nothing out there on it that I can find. I've admitted that it may be a bias on Quick's or Freeman's part, or Nate's reticence to let Travis use it as an excuse, but there's really no information. And my guess is that, with the links above that quoted him as not working out, coupled with his test failures, and the lack of reporting about his asthma being a factor in those failures, that it wouldn't take "posters not in the know" perpetuating a "myth" to make people think that Travis doesn't come to camp in shape.
I'll go back and fix it. Don't want you having to wade.[/quote] yet you've already misused the quote feature twice in this post... is this you being funny? sure it can. I think I've clicked on most of your links and reread all of your posts, yet neither Travis or any media type I'm reading is quoted saying what you're alleging (that he didn't work out at all in any offseason). He's said he didn't work out as much as he could have and is using to camp to round into NBA game shape, but you're not rocking this comprehension test if you think he's saying he didn't work out at all. It's ridiculous to think that any player could go from lazy coach potato taking 4-5 months off to go directly into an NBA training camp and enjoy the best season of his career. btw, after signing his extension Brandon Roy articulated that he (and some teammates) spends months of the off-season relaxing. I've read multiple accounts from players who say they do this. Only the scapegoat types seem to get grief for it. 1/3rd of the season is only Wheel's guestimation of how long it took TO to get into tip top shape of his best season ever. Take it as the bible truth if you want. But if you've done any sort of research on this topic it's hard to understand how you're wondering whether September is spore season let alone being indignant/smug about it being so. A couple obvious Google searches would answer most of your questions about asthma... they helped me anyway. First try putting in Asthma . You'll find the very first links will talk about what a typical asthma attack is... constricted bronchii was the exact language used by one of those links describing whats typically happening physiologically during an attack. For your next search try Oregon asthma spores and you'll learn exactly what season is asthma season in Oregon. The article I'm recalling seems to be the same one that PapaG is recalling... are we making it up? I've searched for what I've referenced and struck out finding it, but that doesn't mean it never happened. I know the O doesn't keep their articles on line forever. Here's an idea that might settle things. We could create an email account with hotmail (or whoever) that we could both access and shoot off some questions to some of our local media who've been here a while. Travis's asthma isn't exactly the sexiest story to try to sell papers with, but I'm sure that the facts are known to those guys. I'm confident that my memory will prove to be spot on. seriously, comprehension doesn't seem to be a strong point for you. Needling/pestering with the same shit over and over on the other hand... see above. STOMP
Found this in a search and posted it in another thread. I thought it was interesting in regard to the conditioning test failures of Outlaw. http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindbla...martell_s.html
both Brian and I have linked that article in this thread. Yet somehow he claimed that he couldn't find any articles that spoke of Travis's asthma struggles STOMP
Come to think of it, the asthma thing might not have come up until Nate was hired. Nate's first season was my last, and I don't remember hearing anything, but I was pretty disenfranchised at that point with sports writing.
Brian seems to be experiencing some degree of willful ignorance in his baffling and lengthy board obsession with Travis Outaw. It's odd, because he is so reasonable and factual on other subjects.
I quoted the article PapaG posted, and I read every article I could find online on Travis Outlaw in the past 4 years. Nowhere did I find that asthma caused him to either a) be "out of shape" for training camp or b) fail Nate's conditioning test. The part that you guys are quoting? Where he says: I'm not heartless. If the guy says he has a mental block exerting himself because of bad memories, I believe him. But never once did he say some spores were constricting his bronchii. Never once did he say that he has attacks if he exerts himself as an adult (or Blazer, which is basically the same thing). Not once did he say that he comes to camp in the best shape he can, but it's not good enough to pass Nate's tests. Not once did he say that he could've done better, but he couldn't breathe that day. All of those things I could understand and probably sympathize with, since (as you guys rightly point out) he doesn't seem to have a problem making the most of his 28mpg during the season. Here are two quotes ("reporting", if you will) that say about the opposite: (from the 2007 article, the one I'm using to say that he doesn't work out enough in the summer to stay in shape) Not "why did you fail the test?" but "why didn't you report to camp in shape?" For me, there's a big difference there. If there's not for you, that's cool. But that's where I'm drawing my conclusions from. His words. Not a google search of "asthma". If it turns out I'm wrong, and he really did work his butt off and just had a couple of spore-constricting-bronchii days, mea culpa and you have a whole thread saying "I told you so". But I don't think that's going to happen. And until I either get NateBishop access to the team or Quick starts delving deeper into the reasons people fail the conditioning test, that's all I have to go on.
Or, he could stop himself before an exacerbation occurs, and since you admit that you know next to nothing about asthma, I do wonder why you continue to try and play respiratory specialist on the internet. At this point, our debate ends since you refuse to consider all factors and instead continue to bash away. Asthma isn't an all-or-nothing excuse, but rather a component that must be considered in your Outlaw bash. You refuse to do so, and have made the thread about you and not about Outlaw's asthma.
