0-10 was just an example. Wasn't citing any specific game. What you're failing to mention is Rudy came into the league as a 24 year old. Martell is 22...That makes a huge difference. All I'm getting at is that Rudy isn't held accountable for poor play in here. It seems the downsides of his game are completely ignored while Martell is roasted constantly. There was just a thread about Martell regressing as a player.....
That's true. Checking his game logs, I see no huge 0-fer's... There are a few bad performances though (criteria for a "bad performance": at least 6 shots, no more than 2 makes, less than 30% FG): http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fernaru01/gamelog/2009/ 2008-11-22 - 1 for 9 2008-12-05 - 2 for 7 2008-12-11 - 2 for 7 2008-12-12 - 2 for 11 2008-12-30 - 2 for 7 2009-01-24 - 2 for 11 2009-01-28 - 2 for 7 2009-02-06 - 1 for 6 2009-02-25 - 2 for 8 2009-03-01 - 2 for 10 2009-03-16 - 1 for 7 2009-03-19 - 1 for 6 Martell's Rookie Season (same criteria): http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02/gamelog/2006/ 2005-11-04 - 1 for 6 2005-12-04 - 2 for 11 2006-03-16 - 1 for 7 Martell and Rudy both have some great performances as well in their rookie seasons. Here's a comparison link: http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=webstma02&y1=2006&p2=fernaru01&y2=2009 Look at the Per 36 Min stat line and the Advanced Stat line... Martell was less efficient as a player (thus the lower PER), but their per-36 minute performances are actually rather close.
Martel and Rudy are two of our top players, definitely two of our top bench players, they play well together and feed off each other. I'm a huge Rudy fan (as you remember from me advocating inserting him into the SL) but I must admit - also a big Webster fan. I think both are untouchable.
From what I see, Rudy was an impact/rotation player as a rookie, while Webster is something of a project.
I was unaware that we were discussing their ages. Unfortunately Martell hasn't improved much if at all since he came into the league... or, going by stats his career is one flat peak starting his rookie season. Projecting out his improvement rate in PER from his rookie season to his 3rd, he should match Rudy's rookie year PER when he's about 40 years old. all I'm getting at is when you ask questions siting incorrect data and opinions that NO ONE has expressed, you're being ridiculous. btw, Rudy was 23 last season, not 24. Why do you keep distorting facts in Martell's favor? STOMP
What's really disturbing, is that this discussion is even necessary. We know what Webster brings to the table. The fact that Nic and Rudy haven't left him in their rear-view mirrors is a big disappointment. If they had shown any improvement over their rookie campaigns, this whole debate wouldn't be taking place.
We'll just agree to disagree. It's not worth going back and forth over something so small. The point of this thread was to understand why most people in here do not hold Rudy accountable for poor performance...I wanted to hear opinions and I got em....I guess. To say that I'm citing opinions that NOBODY has expressed is just ridiculous...THERE WAS JUST A THREAD ABOUT MARTELL REGRESSING...Either way both of these guys should be around for a while and will be apart of deep playoff runs. They play off of eachother well from what we've seen so I'm excited for the season.
right someone said they thought he might be regressing, but NO ONE said he's the worst player on the team as you claimed. I'm not sure what you think we're agreeing to disagree about but I think it would be great if you could stick to the facts... if you have to distort things to make a case for a player you lose the argument from the get go. Now with Nic out Martell should get all the opportunities he could hope for. We'll all be rooting for him, but if he continues to do what he's done I'm hopeful the excuses will stop. STOMP
good grief dude, hows the "travesty of the Ducks season" going for you or have you completely abandoned that worry train to knock your knees about a Blazer season that hasn't even started? STOMP
this. I don't see what you're getting so upset about. Don't they get about the same amount of minutes? When Rudy's rookie contract is up, we can trade him for someone. If you wanted to argue about Rudy being worth less than someone, you should compare him to someone that left.
What on earth are you talking about? How have I distorted any facts? Go ahead and enlighten me please. I said I was exaggerating the "worst player on the team" thing and you keep harping on it. Fall back. I didn't title the post HEY STOMP LETS ARGUE ABOUT MARTELL WEBSTER so I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up...We will see what happens when he gets PT for the next 3-5 months. If he doesn't play well, I will be the first one to admit I was wrong about the guy but he's 22 years old. He's going to have growing pains, I don't care if he's played 10 years in the NBA up until this point and hasn't played well. BRoy has publicly stated he is thoroughly impressed with Martells progression this off season, I think I'll stick with our best players opinion over what an NBA fan...
So you're both asking to be enlightened as to your distortions while whining about me doing so Prior to this last post I'm responding to, no where in this thread did you admit you were exaggerating the "worst player on the team" thing. You have exaggerated Rudy's age and assigned him worse shooting nights then he has ever had as "an example" of what you're talking about. You also claim that Martell should get minutes over Rudy because of his rebounding and D despite Martell's D generally sucking and his rebounding stats being extremely close to Rudy's. How you're getting indignant about having this stuff pointed out is beyond me. who is getting worked up? I'm didn't start a thread where I'm making stuff up to support my views, I'm relaying facts... some facts that apparently you were missing (what's the title of this thread again?). If you want to go on a distortion based rant slanted in one Blazer's favor over a superior player and not have anyone counter you with reality, just write it down on paper and post it on your wall... or lecture your dog. On this chat site you should expect a response. STOMP
Once again, stats do not tell the whole story. Some players "Make plays". Some do not. Rudy came in and made plays last year, it was that simple. In the playoffs, nobody outside of Roy really played well, including Aldridge, who I think could have performed better. If we judged the team based purely off of playoff performance, who would be left? Roy, and that's it.
It seems to me Rudy has a much better "handle" with the ball then does Martell. That's a valuable skill that I am not sure is captured by stats. Also, Rudy is a rookie. Sure he played in the Euroleagues but that still isn't even close to the NBA. He started off pretty strong, then wore down as the season progressed. I figure I would give Rudy a couple more years before I said he wasn't any better then Webster.
Making up facts eh? At no point did I say that Martell is better than or deserves more minutes than anyone on the team. That is making up facts to further your argument. I said Martell is better on D and rebounds better. He crashes the boards..When have you ever seen Rudy get up and block somebody's shot or crash the boards? You're acting like I said Rudy was 24 last year to further my argument...My bad he was 23 until April. I said Rudy CAN go 0-10....Not DID...You understand the difference between those? Are we clear that I was exaggerating that and was not citing it as fact? I asked for someone to please explain to me why Martell is hated on and Rudy is revered when they both have holes in their game.
Rudy brings excitement, especially at home. He riles the fans up. He's fun to watch. I guess that's what I enjoy most about him. My two concerns: 1) How is he doing now that Sergio is gone? Where is his head at? 2) Is he going to be okay as a bench player, at least for the next few years? The way I see it, if we can hold onto Rudy through his rookie contract, he might help us get a championship. There's no rush, unless he becomes a chemistry issue. We can always move him in two years.
a fact is something that is inarguable, like Rudy shooting higher percentages from the field, FT line, and deep in 08-09 then Martell ever has. An opinion is a belief in something that is not absolutely established, like what posters might say if Rudy someday went 0-10. You seem to be confusing the two. Rudy & Martell's shotblocking totals are almost identical, none, but then guards don't usually guard the hoop while forwards do. Is there a reason that you chose to omit mentioning steals? Martell's D is nothing special, I feel equally uncomfortable with either guarding a decent scoring wing. Recall the last season Martell was starting. Around the trade deadline and then again in the offseason, in every single KP interview he'd site a club need of adding a defensive wing player. Then in the draft he traded assets for the rights to Batum siting his ability to defend. If Martell was even passable on defense, why is Portland's GM saying these things and using his assets this way? right, he turned 24 after last season. Thats is a fact. When there is a strong correlation between the guy you're hailing and which way your my bads & exagerations are going, it's the reader's fault for noticing? I understand what you're doing just fine. You're exaggerating (or making shit up) throughout this thread to cast the guy you favor in a good light while doing just the opposite with the guy who up till yesterday likely would have kept your guy collecting splinters. posters already pointed out Rudy's efficiency advantages over Martell as a shooter and overall player... stats don't hate. STOMP
