That chart isn't the number of plays run for players, it's simply a measure of how many offensive possessions Oden actually physically had the ball in his hands. The result column from which you've divined that Roy had 5 plays run for him is a completely different category. It's likely that Roy, at one point or another during the teams possession, touched the ball on at least 14/17 plays.
That chart confirms what Quick had in his chat based on his conversation with Oden and Nate. The fact of the matter is that Oden had 3 turn-overs in 5 "touches". According to Quick (if I understood that part - I had a phone call when it ran) - Roy actually had less plays than Oden in this opening stint, and one of the Roy touche/plays was actually a botched play by Oden out of position that he had to take over - so by design they had more plays for Oden than Roy and LMA in that first stint. So... there you go. I actually thought, before this Quick chat - that they did not go enough into Oden - but after hearing that claim - went and looked at the chart mentioned - and it proves that claim (or at least, seems to prove it, as I do not have a replay in front of my eyes - so I have to work with "reduced" information). Anyway - it sounds as if Nate made an adjustment, Oden does not think there was a problem - and we still won. So...
Does LMA do a good job of rolling to the basket? Does he have good hands? What about Joel? I'd say LMA is average rolling to the basket and has really good hands, and yet he rarely sees anything off the pick n roll. With Joel he's actually very good at going to the basket after the pick, but he's got hands of freakin stone, and yet he does actually see a handful of PnR's. Of course he was good at that before Nate got here...
So did Nate tell Joel to not roll to the basket hard, not to catch the passes, or for players not to throw the ball to the open man? I'm curious which of these Nate decided on.
LMA gets a ton of points off of the P&R, but he tends to slip instead of roll. I think Joel rolls much better than Greg, and despite being a less skilled offensive player, I would guess he scores on a higher percentage of P&R rolls than Greg.
It matters because, unless he's markedly worse than he was when he was drafted, he still has potential and, in my opinion, the best way to get him to reach that potential is to have him involved in the offense. Not to feed him every time down the floor, but also not to AVOID giving him the ball because they want him to "focus on defense". Ed O.
LMAO repped for truth! Argh I must spread it around some more before giving it to Sebastian Express again...
Roy doesn't need plays run for him, all he needs is the ball in his hand and he can create his own shot. He had far more touches than Greg in that 1st quarter (as it should be, I'm not saying pound it to Greg indiscriminately). Those numbers on that chart translate to Greg having the ball in his hands a grand total of about 15seconds in the 1st quarter, all of which he was stationary and wide open for pressure. That's not putting Greg in a position to succeed in my book.
My original reaction to this was they drafted hin for defense, which speaks nothing to his potential about offense and therefore you can't assume he has large potentail on offense. But factoring in his pre-season, I see why he has potential for offense. Nate also told Travis not to focus on offense and to focus only on defense (straight from Traivs). I don't think all this means that Nate wants the team to avoid Oden or Outlaw on offense . . . I read Nate's statement as coming from a coach who is strongly defensive minded and is just trying to answer the media scrutiny about Oden's touches quickly and simply. It takes pressure off Oden and the idea of forcing the ball to Oden to appease fans. I would be shocked if behind close doors, Nate is conducting practice and implementing an offense that avoids getting GO the ball. Simple fact is good things weren't happening when GO was getting the ball against the Rockets. I see nothing wrong with moving away from Oden that night and trying again this game. I suspect Oden will get five touches in the first quarter again tonight.
Greg is a center. He does not need to have the ball in his hand for more than 15 seconds if he gets it in a good position and does something good with it. He got it 5 times, had one assist, one miss and 3 turn-overs. What else do you want to do with him - give him the ball after the half and have him direct traffic? And Roy, because he handles the ball has the ball more in his hands - but if the team has plays designed for someone else - is just a facilitator. If the guy that is supposed to finish the play has problems with it (as Greg did in that first stint) - it is not a surprise they go away from him.
Umm..suppose KP believes this as well - about focusing on defense for Oden. Amazing that all of you believe Nate can do whatever he wants without ANY questioning or intrusion from above. I think we all remember the pressure Natterson could insert when necessary. I'm not saying KP is the type to do that, just that he could be.
I was quick to jump on Nate after game 1 for how little Oden was involved in the offense and his comments continue to be frustrating. However, I'm hoping it's all meant to just put less pressure on Oden early in the season, so I'm going to give it more than one game and hope the situation improves. But Nate's really acting weird about this. Just because a guy may be a force on defense, doesn't mean you have to ignore him on offense. If they'd use him correctly he could be a major force down low. And as some in the national media have mentioned recently, and probably will again tonight, we need more of a presence down low on offense, especially when the post season rolls around.
Remember Joel's 18 point 18 rebound game against the Warriors? The team was running the Pick and Roll for him that night, and Joel showed he was pretty good at it other nights too. Now -- it's just not an option. And G.O. would be even better at it. Why the P&R is not part of our offense I don't understand. But then again, I'm one of those 'clueless' fans Nate speaks of.
Wait, the pick and roll isn't part of our offense? It's odd that a lot of the complaints with Nate is that other than the Roy iso, that is the only play he runs. So either we NEVER run it, or we ALWAYS run it. Fun.
Um, an integral part of the pick-and-roll is the -and-roll part. We don't do that much. We do run a lot of the pick-and-slip, or pick-and-pop, or pick-and-drive-against-the-bigger-guy. So yes, we hardly ever run the pick and roll, and yes, we do initiate a large amount of our offense by the center setting a pick at the top of the key? Better?
Pick and Pop doesn't count. I guess in fairness, I do see the big guys roll, it just seems like they never get the ball. Is it because they don't execute it right? I don't know, but last season I saw the guards stare right at a rolling G.O. a number of times without a hint they thought about giving him the ball.
That seems like an issue too, then. Some see us never making the pass, others see us as never rolling. It seems more apparent that it becomes at times what the viewer wants it to be. Or, we sometimes roll, sometimes we don't. We can't roll all the time, that would be too predictable. We can't not roll all the time. That would be predictable. Sorry, I'm not at all trying to say Nate is perfect. I know too often in these discussions, opposite sides seem to take those extreme positions for the other. Oh, you think Nate is the worst coach ever, oh, you think Nate can do no wrong. There are manythings I wish Nate would do differently. I want Greg to get more opportunities. If we win every game this year, and Greg averages two points, I'm not going to care about his points. I think ultimately, if we stall as a franchise, the necessary changes will be made to bring in a new coach. I don't place all of the praise on Nate for us succeeding, but I also don't place all of the blame on him when we lose. We don't know what the outcome would have been if greg continued to get more touches. We do know what the outcome was with him getting the touches he got. We have seen a progression in our franchise from a 21 win team to what we are now. We have seen an individual progression in Roy from a player most around the league, and I would assume many in here guessed was probably at best a low end #1 option/high end #2 option to a top 7 player in the entire league. Does he get there with a different coach? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe a different coach would have pushed for LMA to be more of a focal point, and not instilled that confidence in Roy. I don't know. Nobody here does. We aren't a perfect team, but by that same measure, we have not stopped or stalled in our progression yet, which is what, I think, bugs many of the Nate supporters in here.
