Couple of "Hmms" about Rudy

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BrianFromWA, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    from ESPN Rumor Mill
     
  2. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    what's wrong with the second comment, about Rubio?
     
  3. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Honestly - as much I love seeing Rudy - I just think Bayless might have a better career than him in the NBA - with the way the rules are now in the NBA - a guard that can attack the rim from the dribble in traffic like Bayless might be more valuable than a guard that can not - even if that guy (Rudy) is better at pretty much every other facet of the game.

    Since I think that Bayless will likely end as a better defender as well - a blockbuster sending Rudy out might not be as unfavorable to me anymore.
     
  4. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. IMO if going to a 3 guard lineup, I would put him in front of Blake at SG too. Then at least everybody on the floor could handle running a fast break.
     
  5. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    What's wrong with the first statement?

    He's a true SG, who was fine with BRoy starting and playing in front of him. Now, he has a guy in Blake (who is not only a PG playing out of position, but is also an inferior player) playing way more minutes at his position? I'd question Nate too, but we know that nothing will be resolved until Nate actually loses a game as a result of playing this lineup.
     
  6. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    The one I would put in front of Blake at SG is JB - you lose defense with Rudy, with all due respect to him.
     
  7. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    My inside guy says Rudy just gave him a message about Nate.

    "Payaso de asno"
     
  8. Luther

    Luther Member

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    Rudy hasn't played well this season. I don't like Blake but he has definitely outplayed Rudy so far. When he starts to contribute I'm sure he'll see the court more. His defense, like always is a liability whenever he is in the game. Sure he gets a few steals here and there but he can't guard anyone one on one.
     
  9. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I do think Rudy's tenure here is somewhat limited, I don't think that means the team is any great hurry to dump him, but with Batum coming back in a few months and all sorts of logjams that have mostly been covered up by rafts of players on the injured reserve, PT is going to be more of a problem not less with the passage of time. Personally I hope KP finally exercises a little bit of his oft talked about "aggressiveness" (from his own mouth no less) and goes after a really high quality small forward using multiple pieces like Rudy, Blake and perhaps even Martell.

    If the Wiz continue to struggle, I'd be really intrigued to see if they'd bite on trading away Butler who is 29 and is not being utilized especially well by Flip Saunders (or maybe he's just had a slow start to the season).

    This is my dream: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yle8jz3 Make it happen KP. :wink: ... and yes I know the Wiz are carrying 15 players already so it wouldn't work without some adjustment, but it would be a start. The Wiz get an expiring contract, a replacement wing in Martell who makes a smallish salary and can play some defense and can hit some shots, and Rudy who would probably thrive under Saunders. In return we get a small forward who at times has been a very good defender, can shoot it a little and can even play some point forward.
     
  10. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I still think this team needs to think about a long-term solution at PG over another SF.

    If we can get a great PG prospect for Rudy and pieces - I would love to see that happen. A 3 guard rotation with Roy, JB and (?) would really be what we need long term, I think. Between Batum, Webster and the SF/PF combos of Travis/Dante we are set OK in the SF rotation - but what happens in 3 years when Miller is not here?

    Roy/Rudy/JB is just not a good guard rotation, imho - these are 3 small-guards that can handle the ball some (JB and Roy better than Rudy) and pass some (Roy/Rudy better than JB) - but we are starting to see how much we can achieve with a real floor-general.

    Rudy/Webster for rights to Rubio/Brewer/Junk might be something to explore (If Minni is willing to rethink their Rubio lust) or something with Chicago for Capt. Kirk.
     
  11. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I think Blake is being phased out, bit by bit. He is another Jarrett Jack for Nate--a crutch. Over time, even though he's playing more minutes now, it's hard to believe that we're going to play this three guard lineup with two point guards. If we're going with a three-guard lineup then Miller, Rudy and Roy or Blake, Rudy and Roy makes a lot more sense than Miller, Blake and Roy.

    KP loves Rudy and wants to find him a way to get more minutes, not fewer. KP loves Blake, too, but he has reached his peak. Note what Nate did when we had a quick PG we couldn't contain with Blake or Miller--he put Rudy on him and let his length bother him.

    I don't think Steve Blake is long for a starting position. In fact, if Bayless continues to improve, I think Blake moves to 3rd string PG/SG.
     
  12. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I think the trouble with swapping out Rudy (and change) for another point guard without moving one or two of Miller, Blake, Bayless or even Mills, is that you're left with not a whole lot of length in your backcourt and an even more jammed up position at the one.

    I get what you are saying about thinking long-term (past Miller) but getting the rights to Rubio and surrendering Webster and Rudy and only bringing in Brewer for the near term makes this a much weaker team IMO; the future is certainly a consideration, but so is the present. I guess maybe that's why I'd be more interested in trading for a veteran like Butler who can play a little bit of point forward, who can play solid wing defense (when motivated and not being tasked with primary scoring responsibilities) and is comfortable shooting a jumpshot either off the catch or the dribble.

    Miller, Roy, Butler, LMA, Oden, backed up by JB, Travis, Batum (when healthy) and Przy seems a lot more balanced in terms of roles (and give you three good facilitators) and still gives the Blazers a tremendous size advantage most nights.

    I also sincerely hope if there are any trades it's for veterans and not more young prospects.
     
  13. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I do not know. I think Blake is the Joel Pryzbilla of point guards of this roster. He was there to start when the contenders (Bassy, JJ, Sergio, Bayless) did not manage to - but since the Blazers were unable to get a real PG like they did with Oden at the C position - they went and got Miller.

    But, like Joel - until something else is coming along (or the young-gun proves he deserves the minutes) - Blake is going to get a nice amount of playing time.
     
  14. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Both Blake and Rudy have their intangibles. Blake hits clutch threes. But Rudy makes clutch steals AND hits clutch threes. And he's a real energizer. But Blake is a better straw-that-stirs-the-drink.

    One of 'em has to go, long term, though. If Bosh makes it clear he's leaving Toronto, LaMarcus and Rudy for Bosh? Who would want Blake enough to give us fair value?
     
  15. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Frankly I think his 4 million dollar expiring contract is just as appealing to other team's as his raw skillset. What that can get us, I have no idea however.
     
  16. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Not certain, especially if you look at someone like Rubio who is not coming in immediately - so it removes Rudy from the rotation - and gives JB the extra minutes to develop. You make the rotation shorter (one less guard) for a future prospect. Might not be the case for another young prospect (who that is, I do not know, however).

    To a point, no doubt - but the big issue here is getting value for Rudy, it does not have to be Webster, and to a certain point - I am wondering if we would not be able to withstand Webster's trade by giving more minutes to Dante until Batum is back. Let's face it - when Batum is back - someone is going to get their minutes squeezed at the SF position as well.

    The way I see it - the Blazers have one defender that is better than the others at SF in Nic - and Travis is a better Offensive player than Martell - this makes Webster a bit of a compromise - and while he seems to be on pace for his best year ever (which is great) - you still have to wonder if you are better going for him as a compromise or having a better? option of going offense for defense with Batum/Travis.

    This just moves the congestion from Guard to forward position. Honestly, if you want a veteran/long-term solution - I would still push for Capt. Kirk for Rudy and parts. He is a vet but with a longer-time frame to be part of the PG rotation for this team, long term.


    This team is awfully dependent on JB to work as a PG - especially if Miller slows down with age. Good team Sure. But you just went from a glut of guards to not enough, maybe, especially when it comes to ball handling.

    Frankly - I think that this team has enough veterans now - at this point in their career I consider LMA and Roy veterans, add Joel, Miller, Howard on the bench and Blake (if he stays here) - and it is no longer a team of kids.

    A Miller/Roy/JB/Prospect is better imho than Miller/Roy/JB/no prospect and a glut of small-forwards.
     
  17. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I feel no empathy for Rudy's "plight", because he's basically playing terribly right now. 38% from the field, 27% form 3, 77% from the line--for a "pure shooter", those are simply horrendous. His pps is the lowest of any rotation player except Joel, and his A/TO ratio is the lowest of any guard on the team. Were it not for his steals, he'd basically be contributing nothing.

    If he were actually producing while out on the floor, then maybe he'd have room to complain about his role. Until then--STFU.
     
  18. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Initially you had said a young point guard prospect and didn't specifically address trading for Rubio's rights, so my comments were directed at your more generic and less specific trade proposal.

    Dante is not a small forward though, he's a tweener who isn't quite quick enough to guard on the perimeter and he's not quite big enough to bang around in the post ... I'd call him a slightly less athletic version of Travis Outlaw.

    I'm not sure I see your point? I proposed a Webster-Rudy-Blake trade for Caron Butler, that clears two players from the wing (and 2s and 3s seem pretty interchangeable in a Nate McMillan system). You are then left with Miller/JB/Mills able to play at point, Roy/JB/Butler able to play shooting guard, Roy/Butler/Batum/Travis able to play small forward (some better than others) and the power forward and center positions remain untouched. Webster is not even a factor in this scenario.

    Again, see my point above; moving Blake, Rudy and Webster clears more time at the wing. As for trading for Kirk, he'd then be competing for time with Miller and that doesn't seem like a maximization of either's talents. Granted I have no idea if the Wiz have any interest in moving Caron so a lot of this is nothing more than idle speculation. I do stand by the point that I'd rather trade for a point-forward type who can play defense versus trying to go out and get another untested point guard prospect.

    JB may never work out as a point guard, but to suggest that this team would be devoid of depth at the guard positions seems a bit unlikely. Maybe I'm being pollyanna-ish about Bayless' potential to fit into the rotation and be an adequate playmaker and compliment to Brandon (et al.) but I'm somewhat encouraged by his first two stints of the season, enough to at least begin to think that he could fit in as a longterm solution -- time will tell of course.

    Again, where is the glut of small forwards? If this team actually did trade for Butler he'd be a 2/3 and your only true small fowards would be he and Batum. As far as finding another prospect or filling a hole at the guard positions that's something that I think can be addressed through the draft or another trade down the line when the situation calls for it. Miller is going to be an expiring contract (potentially) next summer and with his skill-set and experience I don't think he'd be impossible to move and get some value ... especially for a team looking to rebuild and/or cut salary.
     
  19. Pontius

    Pontius Pitched tents are grody!

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    You failed to mention his ability to pass. Why is passing so underrated? He's not shooting well so far. But he's passing better than anybody on the team not named Miller. Without Rudy, you do not see the 2nd unit have the success that it did last night. His passing made for a hell of a difference.
     
  20. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I did mention his assist to turnover ratio. Wouldn't you think that his fantastic passing would factor in there?
     

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