Why Do Advanced Stats Hate Kobe? Part II

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Lakers' started by Shapecity, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    The common sense answer is :A) small sample size, and B) 4th most "efficient" doesn't mean 4th "best."
     
  2. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    I don't use field goal percentage, I use true shooting percentage. He constantly shoots better from the perimeter and FT line, and relative to volume it is quite remarkable the last few years. Even after struggling in the 08 playoffs it was 57.7 (57.6 in the regular season) 30 PPG, 56.4 the post-season after that at 30 Points a night, 56.4 at 33.6 points per game this year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  3. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    the common sense answer would be that he has been thus far this season, but that he isn't going to keep that up over the course of the season.
     
  4. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Probably.
     
  5. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    PER isn't based on his resume or his reputation, it's based on his production. if kobe is upset with the PER, the only way to change it is to be a more productive player.

    i don't see how top 6 is offensive. duncan has slowed(or is pacing himself) to the point where i feel comfortable calling kobe the 4th best player in the league. i'm sure you find that offensive too but oh well.
     
  6. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    i guarantee that several teams(the rockets being one of them) have better models but it isn't in their best interests to share them with everyone else.
     
  7. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Let's look at last season then.

    http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/jh_ALL_PER.htm

    Al Jefferson, Shaq, Zach Randolph all in the top 25

    oldmangrouch I understand being #4 doesn't mean 4th best player. That's why I said 4th most efficient player. I also realize it's a small sample size, but there's several examples of how irrelevant Hollinger's PER model is in explaining real life basketball.

    Zach Randolph is a prime example. He's a travesty on the court, but if sure makes a great fantasy player pickup because of stat padding ways.
     
  8. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Only 4th? Who would you put ahead of him?
     
  9. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Absolutely. Daryl Morey is a statistical guru and it's hard to argue against his track record.
     
  10. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    You asked me why I find it offensive, you don't have to explain to me what PER is or how to raise it.

    It is based on some vague barometers of production, which are not completely accurate. Saying he is the sixth best, or best player when he is the "fourth" best shouldn't be a big deal to you either then.

    See the problem is the playoffs happened and Kobe didn't have to pace himself anymore and made his case for the best player against the best competition. He killed everyone else and will always be a much better defender than someone like Chris Paul for example.
     
  11. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    so kobe outplayed lebron in the playoffs? i don't think so. the playoffs are kobe's case for 2nd best player.
     
  12. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't think enough is made about the effort teams muster up when they face the Purple and Gold either.
     
  13. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    [video=youtube;3CQKtSZBGbk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQKtSZBGbk[/video]
     
  14. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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    lebron is number one with no argument at all. then wade. then paul. i could see the argument for kobe at 3rd after last year's playoffs, but i don't think paul can really be blamed for his whole team collapsing and he's consistently outperformed kobe over the course of two seasons.
     
  15. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

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  16. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    In terms of fantasy basketball I'd agree.
     
  17. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Actually the Magic outplayed the Cavs in the playoffs. The Cavs never even had a chance to be dismantled by the Lakers Championship team.
     
  18. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    He's 30 years old and outplayed Bron, he faced much better competition. Bron didn't do jack against the Rockets this year, and the Hawks/Pistons are trash.
     
  19. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Not at all, Kobe owned Wade in the playoffs as well don't worry.
     
  20. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    The Cavs are just the third 65+ win team in the history of the league to not win a title. It is because Bron needs the ball in his hands more than anyone, it just didn't work.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009

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