If the self-awareness isn't there, how is an abortion "taking away a chance" at a long, wonderful, fulfilling life anymore than refraining from sex? In both cases, you could have created a new life and decided you weren't ready for it--thereby taking away that "chance to grow into something that can be a wonderful human being." If you feel that a fetus is already a person and therefore abortion is murder, I can understand the opposition to abortion (though I disagree). But if you agree that there's no personhood yet...what's really the differentiator in terms of "lost opportunity" between abortion and not having sex/having protected sex?
Roe v. Wade was, in my opinion, a terrible decision by the Supreme Court. The penumbra argument is weak and I hope that the decision is overturned. I would vote to legalize abortion in my state (Washington). I, personally, feel whatever qualms I have about it are less important than the impact of unwanted pregnancy on individuals and society. I don't think that I should have much say in whether abortion is legal in, say, Kansas. If federal laws can be passed outlawing it, then that's one thing. To have the most undemocratic institution in our government install it on the entire country strikes me as misguided at best. I wonder how people would react if the ad were done by a pro-choice group, showing an individual who grew up from an unwanted pregnancy to become a drug addict and a child molester and a killer... and talking about how if he had been aborted the world would have been a better place. Ed O.
I'm not interested in a states' rights debate, but to address this wondering: I think it would be silly, just as I think the Tebow commercial is silly. This debate is bigger than some chosen/crafted anecdotes designed to elicit a disproportionate emotional response.
Is it legal for the owner of a dog to just decide to kill it on a whim? I honestly don't know, I'm asking. Regardless of that... is "self-awareness" really a good litmus test for whether somebody has the right to life?
From descriptions of it, just as I'm going by Ed's description of a hypothetical commercial. I haven't seen that either.
Exactly what I said: this debate is bigger than trying to use anecdotes to define the issues. It's great that Tebow could have been aborted but wasn't and grew up to be a college football hero. So what (in regards to the abortion debate)? It's as meaningless as a single example of an unwanted pregnancy that the woman was forced to go through with, leading her or the father to emotionally abuse the child culminating finally in the suicide of the child at age 15. What purpose do such intentionally emotionally manipulative anecdotes serve in enlightening or educating people about the issue? Nothing, IMO. It's simplistic propaganda.
I call the ad concept food for consideration....especially in regards to those youth Tebow potentially might be a role model to. My guess is, Tim will make follow-up educational efforts relating the potential dangers of pre-marital sex as well as abortions. Arm the kids with reasonable and factual education.
Sure, as much as Ed's hypothetical example is. Also known as "cheap attempt at emotional manipulation" as far as I'm concerned. Oh, good. So you agree with sex education in schools, including how to use condoms and other birth control? Safe sex reduces abortions.
Sure, saving a baby is emotional manipulation. Sheesh. Educating them in safe sex precautions? Sure. Handouts and promoting the going outside of parental awareness/supervision? Absolutely not. After all, these are the same kids who will become parents someday.
I would bet you anything (although I have no evidence) that there have been more people of that ilk than there have been of Tebow's. And, wouldn't it be a fair trade to have one fewer Heisman Trophy winner and one fewer rapist/murderer on earth? I'm not clamoring for that commercial to be made, but it seems to be at least a rough approximation of another angle and an indication of why the Tebow ad might be controversial... Ed O.
Dumbing down the abortion debate to "You're killing Tim Tebow, national college hero, or someone just like him, if you have an abortion. Do you want that? Do you want to murder Tim Tebow, or someone just like him, in cold blood?" is emotional manipulation, yes. Attempted, anyway. I doubt very many people are going to change their feelings on abortion because Tim Tebow could have been aborted, wasn't and went on to star in college football. Cool. Absolutely they're going to be the parents someday. We'd like them to have learned to think for themselves, not be dominated in life choices by their parents. I don't think hiding things from their parents should be "promoted"...but I think having alternatives that don't depend on parents is worthwhile.
Sure, Ed. And, as far as I know, the only way to ensure that happens is either to (a)not conceive or b)abort every fetus.
Well, by holding up Tebow as a reason to not abort, it seems totally fair to point to a bad, bad guy as a reason to abort. Why is one more ridiculous than the other? Ed O.
so at what age did you have a serious discussion about safe sex with your children? My parents never directly spoke to me about it. But I had a class in 5th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade, 9th grade, and 10th.
Uhm, I'm only attempting to understand why you think the commercial is silly. Me? Again, I think it's fantastic message to youth. I strongly believe in preserving life as much as humanly possible. When potentially faced with the choice to keep or abort a fetus, perhaps those same youth might take a strong, hard look at all the (relational? emotional?) ramifications at stake....as opposed to a potentially quick and easy choice. Who's "we"? Huh, "we" must be smarter than the respective parents, eh?
Then, when you become a parent of an adolescent, you'll immediately become dumber than the educators, as well.
