Frum

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by barfo, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    To pretend this bill was just like any other is just insulting. There has never been a bill of this social magnatude passed on a purely partisan line. In fact, the only bipartisanship you see in this bill is from those who oppose it.
     
  2. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful article. I agreed 100%.

    He is the type of Republican I was a fan of so long ago. Wow, how they have fallen off.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    True that.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I haven't seen anyone who's analyzed the bill point to any cost cutting features of the Bill. There are at least two tax hikes, though.

    For certain, people will find that the fines are cheaper than paying for the insurance.

    Do the math. $3.6T budget with $1.6T deficits becomes $5.8T (add the $2.2T we spend on health care). Tack on the expenses for an additional 10% of the population who will be forced to buy insurance and it's $2.4T, assuming the rates don't get jacked up.

    That's $6T out of a GDP of $14T (currently), the bulk of it spent on programs that both cost more than they take in and have tens of $trillions in liabilities (if not hundreds of $trillions).

    To cover those expenses at break even, the feds need to tax 43% of GDP. Not including state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, etc.

    This is what change looks like.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Unlike tax cuts with sunset provisions republicans used reconciliation for.
     
  6. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

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    I agree. This really isn't "reforming" so much as it is designed to eliminate via vilification the insurance companies on the way to a national single payer system. That's the "reform". Along the way, we will all pay substantially more for healthcare and higher taxes. It's going to hurt.

    And to think... if the health insurance companies were unionized, none of this would have even started.
     
  7. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I didn't say that. In fact, I said the opposite:

    "Republicans are just (rightfully) frightened of the fact that this time it was used to put in place something that they probably can never get rid of and may in fact represent merely the beachhead to a much more sweeping system that they don't want."

    This bill was bigger than any bill pushed through with Republican majorities under Bush the younger. The hostility to the minority party was nothing new, though. McArdle pretends Democrats just ushered in a new era of "tyranny by the majority" which is nonsense.
     
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sure. Plus Alpha Centuri is 40 trillion kilometers away, so 5.8T + 40T = 45.8 trillion.

    Your "math" is nonsense. There is no reason to add the total nationwide spending on healthcare to the federal budget and pretend that the federal government needs to pay the sum.

    barfo
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It's how much of the economy the government is commanding.

    But nice try on your part, anyway.
     
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sorry, but no. Here's what your "math" led you to conclude:

    That's just a false conclusion no matter how you parse the word "commanding".

    barfo
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They're going to tax that much when everyone stops paying for their health care because the fines are cheaper to pay. Or if you don't pay the tax you have to buy the insurance. It's a mandate, and by definition the govt. commanding the spending in the economy.

    As Obama said, this bill isn't perfect, but it's the first step towards... what is it a step towards, barfo?
     
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Saying one side was hostile doesn't make all bills tantamount. From what I read in her article she is claiming that the Democrats will have little room to complain if, when Republicans eventually take power again, they legislate in the same manner with issues of the same import.
     
  13. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Or maybe everyone will just kill themselves because that would be even cheaper.

    In the highly unlikely case that "everyone" chose fines over healthcare, one could solve that problem by simply increasing the fines.

    If the government passed a law saying everyone has to buy food, would you count all food purchases as government spending? Even if no one spent any more or any less than they did before?

    Fact is, that $2.2T per year is already being spent. Many people already buy health insurance.

    It is a step towards insuring the uninsured.
    It is a step towards insuring those with pre-existing conditions.
    It is a step towards insuring those who are not eligible for an employer-sponsored plan.
    etc.

    barfo
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Don't need to kill ourselves, the govt. death squads are perfectly good at deciding who lives or not.

    It's a step toward funneling $500B from medicare to the insurance companies, and it has nothing to do with actual health care.

    You seem to be happy watching the govt. waste amounts in the $trillions, frequently and at every opportunity, while we suffer through days of malaise version 2. Only this time, we're not going to be in any shape to get out of the hole your kind is digging.

    At the same time you seem to be happy giving up your freedoms so some politicians might stay in power.

    I don't get it.
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Until the death squads have proven to be effective, I think it is best for people to kill themselves.

    Which freedom am I giving up? My freedom to be uninsured? I don't care anything about that freedom. I will also give up my freedom to have BarM Ranch branded on my ass, in case anyone wants to pass a law against that.

    I don't doubt it.

    barfo
     
  16. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    There will be long waiting lists for government-run death squads. Look at Canada and England.
     
  17. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...138071192342664.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_opinion

     
  18. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  19. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Another commentator revealing the false premises of David Frum

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...he-conservative-the-right-loves-to-hate/full/

     
  20. Sug

    Sug Well-Known Member

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    I love it, the pubs are dividing faster than the Blazer front office.
     

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