LeBron might be the best player I've ever seen, to do this in a slightly more athletic era is what impresses me. He had more win shares in the second title run.
And for the record, I do agree Lebron is ridiculously skilled, I just think Kobe's on MJ's and Larry Bird's skill level, which is a notch above. One can make a case that Kobe is the most skiller player ever. In terms of athleticsm Kobe was never close Lebron.
I think because of how young he got into the league and without a retirement midway through, he'll probably retire as the best. Many players from the 60's/70's also have an inflated number of minutes played due to different rules.
LeBron is the best player at his age ever. He is by far the best player in the NBA. And (IMO) will be either the best or 2nd best player of all-time when it is all said and done. He is seriously that good. Definitely best player i've seen play since MJ in the early to mid 90s.
I seriously thought something happened to you. And then people had "RIP Huevon" stuff, I was saddened. You are one of the Laker fans who are cool, get along with me. Welcome back man!
Yeah that was funny, I'm alright. I love the game of basketball so I still read stuff if I have the time.
How many times have they ridden Shaq's coattails to a title: Kobe - 3 LeBron - 0 How many times have they dragged a team where Zydrunas Ilgauskas was the next-most-talented player to the NBA finals Kobe - 0 LeBron - 1
How many times have they significantly contributed to their team winning a championship title: Fisher-4 Kidd-0 Exactly what does this tell us?
not sure I agree with that comparison. The gap from Kidd to Fisher is a LOT LOT LOT bigger than the Gap from Lebron to Kobe.
Hmm. Well, I think Kobe is an inner circle Hall of Famer, so it's hard to be far better than that, but I think James is already significantly better than Kobe at his peak of a few years ago. By that same token, though, I don't buy much into this "We still haven't even seen James at his prime" argument. I don't think James has a lot of upside left, because there just isn't much higher a player can go, realistically. Like Jordan, I think James has fulfilled most of his potential extremely fast. He may improve a little and have a season or two that are better than this, but I think this will be around his level until he declines. And while James may be a little overrated defensively, I thought the same about Kobe. It's simply a fact about sports observer psychology, IMO: any fantastic offensive player who shows any competence/effort on defense will tend to be overrated at least a bit on the defensive end. For the first half of Kobe's career, he had an intimidating defensive presence behind him in Shaq. Shaq's man defensive skills had declined due to weight gain and lack of effort, but he still possessed an intimidation factor to slashers. Kobe was able to play tighter man defense, because being beaten off the dribble was a less of a concern with Shaq behind him. That led to the perception (and, to some extent, reality) of a hounding, pressing defender who contested everything...but he had an advantage that allowed him to do that. Since Shaq left the Lakers, I think he's been like McGrady was before the back problems or like Durant is now...generally average on defense with the ability to turn up the defensive pressure on select possessions. You say that Kobe is in the "Magic Johnson/Larry Bird" tier of skills, which is a notch above James...I simply don't see what Kobe does/did better than James. Magic Johnson has long been one of James' most common comparisons. I think James actually has the claim to being "the most skilled player ever" for one big reason: in addition to possessing the full complement of wing skills (passing, ball-handling, vision, shooting) he also has true high post and low post skills (beyond merely being able to shoot fade-aways out of the post). That makes James extremely unique in the "skills" department. I think a lot of Kobe Bryant. I've always defended him against claims that he was a selfish player, or that he couldn't/wouldn't distribute the ball, or that he was nothing compared to Jordan. I just think he's "merely" a top-20 player or so (like Duncan or Garnett in his own time), whereas James is one of all-time transcendent players.
I'd probably take a prime Kobe over a Prime Lebron as well. Kobe's all around scoring skills through the course of his career have been better, where LeBron really has the advantage of a superior body that allows him to bowl his way through the paint a lot more. Kobe also has not had the benefit of playing in a weakened eastern conference throughout his career.
Why are we assuming that James' game won't continue to evolve? Neither Jordan nor Bryant were great jump shooters early in their careers, but they developed those games as their athleticism slipped. James has already added a pretty decent three point shot. And he doesn't post up much at the moment, but certainly should be able to use his bulk more as his speed diminishes (a la Magic Johnson). Let's put it this way: swap James for Bryant on the title Lakers teams and they'd still be massive favorites. Put Bryant on the Cleveland teams that James has lead to the top of the East, and I'm pretty sure their records would be lower. The times Bryant was NOT surrounded by top talent (and the greatest NBA coach of the modern era) he missed the playoffs altogether or was bounced in the first round.
Prove it. When has Bryant scored more effectively than James? He's certainly shot a lot more often when he should've passed it (and when James would have) but I'm not sure that's a good thing.
