Don't go dissing Tim Duncan, now, or he'll show you his three finals MVP awards. Talking of which: where's Shaq in this calculus?
Great post. I do disagree on James low post skills as they aren't nearly as developed as you think they are. Secondly, while he has gotten better at it, he's still not as developed as a shooter as Kobe or Jordan was in their prime, still highly relying on getting most of his points in the paint. In my opinion, Lebron is still the much better player. Kobe has been much more reliant on teammates for his success than Lebron. Kobe is 100 percent reliant on his teammates. If they aren't elite, he can't win. At all. Almost no one has turned "crap to gold". But plenty of players have found some level of success with non-elite talent. Kobe isn't one of them. Right now, I figure it's the big 6 of Russell, Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Bird and Wilt, then Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem, then Moses, Kobe, Oscar and West. While the top 6, for Kobe, is impossible for him to reach. It's unlikely that Kobe makes any improvement past his prime. So...maybe impossible isn't a good word, but it is certainly improbable. Depending on how Lebron's career turns out, he not only has the chance to be in that elite category but stand at the top.
Well according to basketball-reference, Kobe is already better than Bird. Russell and such are just another season of work away.
Shaq is in between those two "tiers" to me. He's a clear top-ten player, but not necessarily in the "greatest player of all-time" debate (though, I don't necessarily think it would be unreasonable if someone did argue for him). If one wanted to say Shaq was also an "all-time transcendent player," I wouldn't disagree. I think he's a clear step above Kobe and Duncan in terms of value to a team.
Kobe is an assassin! Killer instinct, unstoppable! LeBron is unstoppable in a different way. He makes his teammates better if you ask me. I love to watch them both play. I will tell you if the game is on the line and the clock is ticking down I want Kobe shooting it!
It all depends on how much credit you give him for the threepeat. Unless he puts up an incredible performance while winning a Finals MVP, I think he stays about where he is, in a tier with Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, West, Oscar and Dr. J. It's too late, IMO, for him to make the top 6.
Well, I didn't really render an opinion on "how developed" I think they are. I don't think he's a top-flight low post threat, but I think he has legitimate low post game. No perimeter player has a real chance to defend him in the low post and proper big man defender will still be challenged. That's pretty remarkable for a "wing."
When you're more valuable than Prime Shaq on the most dominant playoff team ever, that's not what a Robin does.
Okay, so I'm just supposed to take your word for it. Anyways, Shaq had the higher PER, PPG and was the bigger defensive presence, so I don't see how he was "more" valuable. I could see an argument for equally valuable but more valuable, I don't believe it.
How is it taking "my" word? I don't run that site. They made the conclusions they did and I'm not surprised. Shaq has never been as efficient Prime LeBron, he misses a ton of FTs and lets other players crawl into his tier. Kobe was on the court longer, with the same net defensive and offensive rating. Generally that means you're better, not to mention the way assisted buckets are calculated in PER.
We're not comparing Shaq or Lebron here so I don't know what tangent you were going off on there. Secondly Kobe has a worse Offensive rating and Defensive rating during the three peat so I still don't know what you're talking about. 1999-00 Kobe ORTG: 110 DRTG: 98 Shaq ORTG: 115 DRTG: 95 2000-01 Kobe ORTG: 112 DRTG: 105 Shaq ORTG: 114 DRTG: 101 2001-02 Kobe ORTG: 112 DRTG: 103 Shaq ORTG: 116 DRTG: 99
We're talking about the post-season. I bring up King because only him, Jordan, Kareem/Wilt are clearly on another tier that Kobe won't catch up to when he retires. We're talking about credit for the title run aren't we? Playoffs dude. Kobe is the king of 2000-2001, also known as the most dominant playoff team ever with a Prime Shaq on it as well.
Remember the 2000-2001 Lakers were just another team that barely edged out the Kings at the last moment in the standings. The reason they rolled through the playoffs is because Bryant put on one of the greatest runs in the post-season against the Western Conference, ultimately being crowned as the best by BBR, not me.
Okay, so I guess I had to assume what you meant. Why didn't you just say playoffs? Just looking at it now Kobe only had a better ORTG and DRTG one year, in the playoffs, out of the three peat, and not by even a huge margin. The 00-01 season. The other two seasons were Shaq's and 2 is better than 1, am I correct. I agree that Kobe could be of equal value during the 3-peat, but more so than Shaq, that's just asinine.
