Too Obvious Curry v. Monta, Right Now

I know Monta dropped 34, but its the other things, the 8 rebounds and 9 assists that shows me that Curry is more likely to make his teammates better.

 

Boy, I missed the game last night, so thanks for that philsmith75. What a performance. Almost a triple double, 42 points, and 12-12 from the free throw line.

And you're right, the way he was getting out and running the coast-to-coast, he looks like Steve Nash out there. Confident.

 

Yeah, but why is it Curry vs. Monta? One is a PG and one is a SG. Why can't just they play off each other? Not only that, Monta has had games where he's had more assists or rebounds than Curry. I'm not trying to defend Monta, but you're inconsistent with your position on Monta. One post you declare that you've been wrong about Monta. Then a month later, you post something like this.

 

I agree, I like how four nbdl players and a depleted bench can ride Curry all the way to the end and it's a watchable and pretty effective team since guys are picking their spots when they score and are capable enough to make plays for one another. Plus, have you seen an nbdl or undrafted guy that didn't work hard for a team (or contract)?

I really want to keep these guys (with reasonable prices, of course, none of these stupid deals that our GMs, and warriors presidents keep doing):
Reggie Williams - Does he make others better? Yes, he does. If he's like a Johnson Salmons, that's a good role player to have
Anthony Morrow - One of the best shooters in the league
Anthony Tolliver - A smart, productive (albeit inconsistent) power forward. Good role playing compliment for when we get that dream center to have Curry throw inside to. Plus, what if we can't re-sign or don't want to re-sign Wright. What if Randolph proves to be too inconsistent and low basketball IQ to put up with. This is a good guy to have that can play now.

I think the nbdl compliment above is good insurance for Wright/Randolph and whichever swingman we might draft or sign. Plus, they're making better money than the nbdl and they get to be in the nba. We could sign brand new nbdl players to replace the above guys, but we need to have some continuity and not be cheap all the time. Plus, what if they're a rare find in the nbdl and we lucked out on highly skilled, affordable role players?

Also I'm pissed too, like everyone here, that if we hadn't had that stupid Maggette contract we could probably do some damage this offseason or get some wiggle room for the next few years. The guy has to go before he really hits an injury season. Stupid Robert Rowell. Arrogance and stupidity rolled into one. I hope the door hits Cohan's ass and the back of Rowell's head on the way out when they finally sell that team.

 

Just awesome. I think Curry's play this year is a clear sign that he is the unquestioned franchise player. He makes the team go.

I love the pass fakes. The guy is just so creative.

 

I totally agree, what other team is able to find gems in the nbdl like the Warriors have? Reggie Williams is looking better than most of the rookie class this year!

Lol

 

Why can't we have both? Because Monta does not buy into having Curry be an equal. Watch what he does, how he talks. He resents Curry.

It has not been one month. Its the difference between November - April.

If you look at my posts it appears to be inconsistent but when I was praising Monta, Curry was playing like a timid rookie with no impact (because the vets were not treating him as an equal.) But that was in November. I changed my mind about Monta being a selfish, gunner, when he stepped up and took responsibility for the team in front of Nellie. But once he got injured and saw how Curry was his equal, if not more important, Monta has been anything but gracious to Curry. That's the reason why they cannot coexist. As the year wore on, rather than doing all he could to be a team player, he merely solidified his position as a pure gunner.

 

How do you know this? You're basing it on very limited, media filtered sources. If you're going to say that, why don't you take a look at the recent interviews by Monta and Curry. They are doing nothing but praising each other and saying their success as a backcourt has been great.

Not that I buy into it completely, but I'm not going to make definitive statements that I can never prove like "Monta resents Curry."

Just because I'm debating with you and disagree with you pretty much 90% of the time, doesn't mean I resent you. I actually appreciate your input and find it rather insightful. What may appear as something doesn't always mean it is.

Case in fact, Monta and Steph had combined stats that made them one of the most productive backcourts in the league all the whilte Monta "resenting" Curry. Now, of course this is a bit misleading because they didn't win any games, but I don't think you can pin it all on the backcourt deficiencies.

 

Dr.,

Here's my disclaimer. Everything I write is speculation based purely on my observations. Nothing is based on fact.

The games I have watched I have seen Curry get off (like the youtube link I posted) and Ellis is nowhere to be seen offering congratulations.

Together they may have been "productive" but its truly misleading; Monta got off early on, later it was Curry; very rarely were they both complimenting each other; at least what I saw.

What I see is that Curry excels in making his teammates better; Monta, not so much. Curry would be better paired with a bigger, less volume shooter. Ideally, a JRich/Ginobili type.

 

Sure, but you're totally alienating and antagonizing Monta when in fact all he's done is play his heart out and IMO he hasn't been a liability at all. Just because he doesn't high five Curry doesn't mean he resents him. He's been that way since he's been in the league. He keeps to himself. But all of a sudden Curry is going great so you've decided to throw Monta under the bus.

I don't consider Monta a "volume shooter" just yet, despite me calling him that before. I've been thinking about this. This season was his first real season back as the franchise guy. He put a lot on his back and wanted to prove something. Years before, he did great as an off-ball scoring guard. I think if he not necessarily reverts back to that but incorporates more of that role, he would be a lot more effective than an aging J-Rich of Ginobili, who btw are more expensive than Monta.

My point is, why all the hate for Monta when he hasn't really done anything to hurt the team, specifically Curry's game, this year?

Curry's success doesn't necessarily make Monta expendable. Monta's also developing and part of his development should be to adapt to the players on the team. I think he's done that and he can do better. I don't see Monta as the problem going into next year.

 

I pointed to Ginobili/JRich as examples, not any desire to obtain them in their present state (I'm not that stupid.)

All this hate? I do not really hate him. I'm simply kind of fed up with his game. He's a very good scorer, but that's it. I praised him for accepting responsibility for the team and standing up to Nellie. He simply does not make the other players around him better. I wanted him to make the others better. But he simply does not do the little things to make the team better, the loose balls, the tough rebound, the extra pass, the extra rotation on D. His version of tough D is to get that steal. Well even the best stealers only got 2.5 a game; what happens the other 50 possessions?

You may not consider him a "volume" shooter but it certainly looked it this year and "experts" around the league came to the same conclusion.

He did nothing to make Curry better, other than take an extended absence for injury which forced the team to accept Curry as the lead dog and the results showed he made the team better.

 

Here's my take on it...I blame Monta for a lot. I don't forgive him for crashing his "moped", then ripping Curry before ever setting foot on the court. He hasn't done anything to earn the right to pout. Monta changed his tune after he saw how good Curry was, but I don't think the kid has done anything to earn the right to question front office decisions.

I'll give it to Ellis... that he busted his butt to get back to game shape this season. But there was so much drama with him this year.

Contrast this wih Curry and his quiet confidence. The guy is the Monta's bizzaro. Everything flaw Monta has, are Curry's strengths (except for physical strength where they are both toothpicks). Steph handles the ball with smooth silk, he's smart, he sees the game in all of it's dimensions, he knows when to put the team on his back and when to force the issue, he knows how to change pace.

You may ask what this has to do with Monta, I'll tell you what. Curry makes others around him better. Except for Monta. Monta will get his regardless of who's running point. And he needs the ball in his hands to do so. I'd rather swap him out with an aging heady player with a mid-range game like Rip Hamilton, or a younger smart player like Childress any day of the week. You can get them for cheaper, and the team gets better. Hell, I think Raja Bell would be a better compliment to Curry than Ellis.

Then you take the rest of the money and put it in the front court. It's a no-brainer IMO.

 

Monta got his because he thought he had to shoulder the load (that's what the Warriors paid him to do). He didn't know Curry would be so good. I think he began to accept it toward the end of the season. There were a lot of times when Curry got Monta the ball for an easy score. I also think Monta learned from Curry. Like you said, Monta's weaknesses are Curry's strengths, but Monta's picked up a few things from him. Also, don't forget that Monta was super efficient without dominating the ball a couple years ago. I see no reason why he can't go back to that efficiency once he accepts Curry as a leader. Maybe not THE leader, but a co-leader. It's kind of cool having two totally different personalities and playing styles coming together. I think people are getting hung up how those two things clash, but if it comes together, I think it's a good thing to have. Better than having an aging Rip Hamilton (sorry, CH).

I don't know guys, I totally understand what the dilemma is with having a small backcourt, but I really think it's not the biggest problem we have. I don't think it's a problem at all.

I am pro Curry/Monta backcourt-of-the-future barring any catastrophe.

 

Look, if the Warriors make a trade that makes sense that includes Monta, I won't be heart broken, but it has to make sense in some capacity. I just don't see it happening with current (inept) management

So let me get this straight, because Monta was unfairly given the responsibility of being THE PG for the Warriors (before Curry was drafted), he automatically must make others around him better?

And by your definition of "making others better" I presume you're talking about PG duties. I didn't see a deficiency in Monta's game as far as "little things" despite errant turnovers and gambling on defense. I thought he did a pretty stand-out job on defense when called upon. He's had to guard Roy, Kobe, Durant, to name a few, and did a pretty good job: he stood his ground AND he got steals. He understands spacing and he understands how to attack the basket. He understands how to put pressure on the defense, which takes pressure off his teammates.

Your broad definition of "making others better" doesn't fully apply.

I love Curry. I think he's the future. But I'll say it again, it shouldn't make Monta expendable. It should allow for Curry and Monta to develop some chemistry.

 

You can have your opinion that's fine. I'm just calling it like I see it. I was courtside for the last Suns game and watched JRich simply torch Monta. You can say he knows how to "hold his ground and get steals" but as I wrote on another thread, he showed absolutely zero defense IQ and more importantly zero effort. It was horrendous. Am I killing him for one game? No.

You need to make others better around you whether you are a PG or a center.

 

I think Ellis and Curry play okay together, but do you guys think Ellis is a Kevin Martin? As in, mostly good for scoring and getting to the foul line and nothing else? Kevin Martin was suddenly not a part of the Kings future after they got a more multi-dimensional player like Tyreke Evans. Plus, the barometer for a lot of warrior games was based on Baron or Sjax's play, not Ellis. Ellis could be viewed as 20 point filler, similar to Maggette. Both play inconsistent defense or no defense. Meanwhile, a team like Houston with few great scorers, can win more games than us just by making the extra pass and focusing defensively.

I think it sounds like Monta should go for the right deal (obviously). But we were desperate because we didn't know how much Curry could contribute.

If Monta gets traded for a higher pick, I'd do that, but I want Evan Turner. Somebody that's real polished and versatile.

 

I agree. I think Monta is much more well-rounded than Martin. But I think Martin might fit better with Curry than Monta does.

I think so because first of all Martin is 6'7", so that alone gives him a better chance to defend SGs. Also, He could still score his points without dominating the ball, because Curry could set him up for those mid-range jumpers. With Monta, they still play pretty well together, but it's not an ideal fit, because when Monta dominates the ball, it doesn't make Curry better. When Curry dominates the ball, it makes everyone better. But Monta does better having the ball and going and-1 to the hole, so I think Martin's spot up shooting would probably compliment Curry better. Curry could run the show and Martin could just get open.

But Monta is definitely better than Martin overall.