Warriors draft Ekpe Udoh with 6th pick

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Run BJM, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I have noticed he sets pretty good screens. And, I was saying it leading up to the draft that dude may not be as good as Monroe but hes a very good passing big man in his own right. Watching more of him has only affirmed this to me. He makes really smart passes and shows some nice vision and awareness. I don't expect him to be Chris Webber but think more like Turiaf- makes the right pass, delivers well, noticeably above average for his position but won't make jaw dropping streetball passes.

    Also noticed he does seem to always box out but he gets pinned down- this is the area where his lack of strength is most apparent. On the one hand its nice that the guy boxes out, on the other hand I've always thought the idea of having your big box out and let someone else get the rebound is pretty sketchy.

    As for comparisons, its kind of hard to peg him or project. Raw offensive game, heavily defensive centered. Appears to project out as a role player at first glance but the more you see from him the more you get a sense that his IQ both on defense and in moving the ball and helping the team win can set him apart. I've heard Camby, Theo Ratliff, etc. I would start to lean more toward a prime Kenyon Martin though. I think Udoh has the potential to be a factor on offense next to a great PG (i.e. Curry). IF Udoh can play the pick and roll as intelligently as he passes and plays defense and IF he proves to be as athletic as the aforementioned measurements suggest then I think it is possible he turns into a solid forward a la Kenyon Martin in his prime. Those are some big if's though and I remain skeptical. Similar to Martin, I think he would suffer greatly as a stand alone player without that great PG setting him up. I don't see him developing a very effective post game. Like Martin I think he may have some success facing up and on the pick and pop because he has a decent jumper and a quickness advantage over most PFs. I've also believed that Kenyon Martin was an underrated on ball defender in the post even despite being on the lighter side of PFs for his career (hes listed at around 235 lbs I believe)- similar to Udoh. Also, like Martin, I don't have all that much faith for Udoh to become much of a defensive rebounder.

    I don't think Udoh will be a star. He won't be a go to guy. He seems like he'll be a good glue and intangibles guy. Not exactly what you want out of a 6th pick. Optimistically he could be a good weapon next to Curry if he does well on the pick and roll and turns out to be a good athlete- hes already got a decent jumper and hes a good passer. He'll protect the rim and hustle on defense. He'll do anything t help you win. I think whether he ends up as a bust or not depends on how effective of a weapon he can be offensively and that depends on 2 things in my opinion; 1) if he can play the pick and roll well with Curry and 2) if he does prove to be a better athlete than he looks like in most of the games in college. Granted, you don't have to be a freak like a young K-Mart or Amare to be good on the PnR- look at guys like Boozer, David West, even Beans who's not a bad athlete but he isn't a freak either. But it helps.

    Optimistically I think he can be like K-Mart in his prime. Probably less of a freak athlete but also a better passer and better rim protection. OTOH I think his dodwnside could be Haslem. Which isn't a bad player but its not a good 6th pick either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  2. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    I just wanted to post a few things again in this thread. First, here is Udoh's pre-draft workout with the Hornets. The guy guarding him is the head coach of the Hornets, lol, Monty Williams. After the workout, Williams said he was trying to test Udoh mentally, and it's obvious he was trying to fluster him by roughing him up and fouling him on most possessions. RunBJM posted it earlier in another thread. After knowing this, though, it sheds new light. Monty Williams was very pleased after Udoh's full workout, so even though he was missing jumpers he was doing what Monty wanted.

    [video=youtube;AkuWCAvQe9M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkuWCAvQe9M[/video]

    Here again is Monty Williams commenting on the workout. I like what a youtube commenter posted, that when he gives his answers sometimes he looks like he's about to slap one of the reporters, lol. He says that Udoh does a lot of things very well, and that he will keep getting better. He also says that because Udoh has so many different skills, he was able to run Udoh through some things that he couldn't have asked the other bigs to do (like bring the ball up full court, etc).
    [video=youtube;TLNyGcs1Bm8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLNyGcs1Bm8&feature=related[/video]

    Here's Hornet's GM Jeff Bower's take. he's pretty impressed with Udoh as well:

    [video=youtube;c8QU0oaGcH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8QU0oaGcH4[/video]

    Then, here's the Kings big-man workout for later lottery picks. Udoh looks pretty good in limited footage:

    [video=youtube;CkXJ4w4yA1M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkXJ4w4yA1M&feature=related[/video]

    Here's Udoh talking at the pre-draft combine. I like his attitude:

    [video=youtube;5lcXHGsxq70]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lcXHGsxq70&feature=related[/video]
    [video=youtube;3YlmlcGEOVs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YlmlcGEOVs[/video]

    Here is a good clip of Udoh doing some good things in the Baylor win over Sam Houston State. After the game, the Baylor coach said the he had to play Udoh at Point Forward and Udoh delivered.

    [video=youtube;to2SWewp3Mo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SWewp3Mo[/video]

    Here's the post-game interview:

    [video=youtube;WV8mZ0PETHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8mZ0PETHM&feature=related[/video]

    Udoh had 20pts, 13reb and 5ast in that win.

    He seems like a very intelligent player, which I did not gather when I first viewed footage of him. Granted, I'm now trying to find positives because the draft is over and done with. But the more I look, the more I seem to find. I'm surprised at how much he weighs, though, given how he doesn't look very strong when he plays. I wonder how much of that weight he put on after the season was over? I mean, technically, he supposedly weighs 2 pounds more than Turiaf, but I see Turiaf just man-handling him, don't you?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  3. Clif10

    Clif10 Member

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    Turiaf is now 250 lbs (maybe underestimate by the Warriors?) and Udoh is 237 lbs.
     
  4. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I would imagine Turiaf is a lot heavier these days. Probably at least 245 lbs and maybe as high as 255?
     
  5. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    This is a good comparison. I'm feeling better about Udoh over Monroe. Udoh did look better in his game against Duke versus Monroe against Ohio although the stats favored Monroe by a hair. Monroe is not as athletic as Udoh and needs to put on muscle. Udoh seems faster and stronger at this point. He'll always be quicker and faster. Udoh can pass, too. Maybe not as well as Monroe. He has to get better recognition of what's happening. I hope he has more upside and has the high b-ball iq. I also hope Nelson does not play him at the 5 too much. Monroe may not be a 5 in the NBA either. It would have been interesting to see him play against Duke.
     
  6. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Just watched the Sam Houston St. game and I wasn't as impressed as the Duke game. He made a lot of nice passes but also made two very bad passes. Ended up with 5 assists but there were at least 3 others where his teammates missed a wide open FGA. He knocked down about 4 wide open mid range J's which was nice to see. Had two plays where he dribbled into the lane and pulled up about 8 feet from the rim and finished with a floater/jumper. Both were with the right hand. Wasn't impressive on the boards again. Had a few nice blocks early and changed a lot of blocks later but was also out of position a lot (granted this was when he was playing the middle of a 2-3 zone). Also worth noting that constantly playing a 2-3 zone probably isn't helping his cause on the defensive glass.

    He made some nice plays but also looked unimpressive at times. Not sure about his motor either after watching these two games. This one particularly he looked more exhausted but he does seem to play damn near the whole game and most of it at C because Lomers sucks. Showed more ability to work off the dribble and made some more nice passes. I'm still not seeing the athleticism that his numbers suggest hes got. It'll be interesting to see what this guy does when teams aren't constantly double teaming him. Could be like a AR situation where he looked like shit at LSU because the coaches played him at C and tried to make him post up all the time. Dude showed he can dribble penetrate a little bit and showed he has a J- perhaps that equals a decent face up game? Seems like Nellie/Riley are able to determine these things in workouts (though they never worked Curry out last year right?) Still never had a pick and roll.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  7. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Re-watched Baylor-St. Mary's. Its a lot less frustrating than the first time around when I was rooting for SMU lol.

    Udoh looked a lot better than he did in the Sam Houston State game. Interesting that the box score in the Sam Houston State game and Duke games were very impressive for Udoh yet when I watched them he looked much better vs. Duke (who also has better talent). In the St. Mary's game he put up 8 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 0 blk, 0 stl and went 4/13 from the field but looked better than the Sam Houston State game when he had 20 pt, 13 reb, 5 ast, 2 blk, 2 stl. St. Mary's also has a bigger, more talented front line.

    Udoh's rebounding looked a lot better in this game. Got separation and got to a number of defensive rebounds. Used his length to mix it up on the offensive glass. Twice in face-up one on one triple threat situations he quickly rose up from about 17 feet and buried it in the defender's face. Also attempted an open 3 but missed off back iron (wasn't missed terribly but wasn't close either). He seems to use pivot/spin moves constantly on every move he makes. Had a nice spin move away from the hoop and swiftly hit a turn around J coming out of it at around the FT line. On the opposite low block he spun toward the baseline and made a nice righty baby hook over Samhan. I don't think he uses his left hand much as he continues to use the right even when it would be more proper to use the left. Every time he had the ball in iso situations (most of his FGAs) he made a really good looking fluid move, i think almost always involving a spin move. He had an up an under he missed, a baby hook with no move preceding it that he missed, and another turnaround J that he missed. He shows he has some variety and hes got fluidity in pivoting, spinning, throwing pump fakes, etc. he just doesn't finish those moves at a great clip like a 20 ppg big man would. Also missed another 1 or 2 mid-range J's short, he missed A LOT of his mid-range J's short in the second half of the Sam Houston State game as well- perhaps fatigue related as he started off drilling everything he saw from mid-range in that one.

    Overall I was impressed with his footwork in this game but he doesn't have the rare touch that you see in the great scoring big men. His jumper is better than I expected. Defensive rebounding looks better this game and the more I focus the more you see how the 2-3 zone hurts him there. This is one thing to watch for in summer league. I have concerns over his finishing ability around the rim as well because I don't know that the has the strength to finish over the tall NBA players. He doesn't get many chances to show this at Baylor as most of his opportunities come 10+ feet from the rim.
     
  8. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    What's most striking to me is the consistency of his jumper. For a guy who has been labeled as a lunch-pail, dirty worker, shot-blocker rebounder, I'm most surprised to read that he's one of the better jumpshooting big men from the draft. He's consistent out to 15-18ft. Like Marcus Camby, actually, very similar. Nellie obviously likes this aspect of a big man's game and I'd be interested to hear how much of a say Nellie had in the pick. Although if they had taken Monroe I'd have been saying Nellie chose him for his post-passing, so lol.

    Either way, I think this #6 pick boiled down to a lot closer of a situation than I'd given it credit. I thought there was a better business move available (trading down and STILL getting Udoh), but now that we have him, I can't say I'd definitively rather have a guy like Monroe. This Udoh kid at least won't be outworked on defense, which I particularly like.

    He may not be flashy, but he might fit nicely. We'll see...
     
  9. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Also interesting the Riley said up to and after the draft that its a "7 player draft". After the draft he flat out said if Cousins was there he would have taken him AND he said that it was close between Udoh and Monroe. Reading into things further we can assume that Riley really though it was a 5 player draft and then the next tier consisted only of Udoh and Monroe lol.

    I said leading up to the draft that I would understand if they took Udoh over Monroe...then I was underwhelmed when we actually picked Udoh. But I'm again back to the mind set that if they had Udoh pegged higher then I would trust them. Udoh is the better athlete, hes more defensive minded, although he may need to add strength no one is calling him soft, he protects the rim, seems to crash the glass well. Offensively hes got a better than expected J, his handles are decent and Baylor often used him as a creator. Very good passer though probably not as good as Monroe. Ultimately I haven't seen enough athleticism or scoring instinct/touch/skill out of either of them to think they'll be go to guys. Udoh does have good NBA athleticism, a defensive approach, a jumper, etc. which Monroe lacks. Monroe is bigger and younger. Also interesting that Udoh is probably more of a C in a PFs body while Monroe is more of a PF but hes way too unathletic to hang at PF in the NBA.

    To be honest I don't like either one all that much though lol. Wouldn't be surprised if they're both bench players for their whole careers.
     
  10. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Hey now Run, you were the one guy saying positive things about Udoh pre-draft (even after he got man-handled by Hornets coach Monty Williams). I need some reassurance here.

    But lol, that was a funny closing comment.
     
  11. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    I'm still confused as to why we drafted "for need" at 6 when we could've traded back and got the same level of talent much later. Just look at 12 & 13. Henry/Davis. The good news with Udoh is that even though he went 6, I think the expectations for him are not very high. He should be able to come in and impress if he outperforms what we all see in him.


    Just look at what Toronto did:
    No. 13 - Ed Davis
    No. 50 - Solomon Alabi

    Do you think they'd trade Udoh for Davis & Alabi? I wouldn't if I were them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  12. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    We didn't really draft for need. We have 2 PFs already (3 if you count Tolliver and 4 if you count Vlad). Riley said prior to the draft that we need a 5 and after the draft he said we need a 3. He also said it was a 7 player draft- with Udoh and Monroe being the 2 remaining after the top 5. If we drafted purely for need Monroe is closer to being center sized. Additionally both Riley and Udoh have said that Udoh is a 4 who can play a little at 5 (same as he played at Baylor) since we drafted him. Riley took the next best guy available in my eyes even though we have two oyung prospects at that position and have more of a need at 5 and 3. Monroe, Aminu, Aldrich, Henry, George could have been picked there. We went with a guy who is very much a 4 as opposed to those players who are more 3's or 5's.

    FWIW Udoh said he expected to go between 6-9 in one interview I heard from him. I heard the Clippers liked him at 8. Like I said, the W's nailed it with Curry last season, after that great of a pick I've got some trust in them. Nellie has a great draft history and Riley's is solid as well IIRC.

    Haha, well I maintain that its a close call between Udoh and Monroe. Seems like Riley said the same thing. They both have their strength and weaknesses. Both do not look to have much go-to ability though. Udoh is the better athlete but I haven't seen any Turiaf-esque explosiveness out of him yet like his measurements suggest, Monroe is a flat out BAD athlete but hes a little bigger. If we're to trust the measurements, Udoh is a 6'10 and nearly 240 lb. PF with good athleticism. He'll change shots around the rim which Monroe will not be able to do. Udoh plays tough, smart, loves to play defense, not soft though he may not have great strength right now. Hes got a surprisingly good jumper and even showed some college 3 point range. Fluid in the post though he won't convert a ton down there. Hes a very good passer from the 4. Baylor used him to create from the perimiter and in the post and he showed hes got some skills in penetrating, post moves, handling the ball, shooting, and certainly passing.

    There are some question marks though that I can't get a good read on because of Baylor's wonky schemes. Due to playing in the zone hes typically out of rebounding position. Interestingly he actually showed in the zone that hes a very good on ball defender and gets most of his blocks that way but I'm not sure how he'll adjust to man schemes where he needs to help with penetrating guards and make switches. Offensively he never gets any pick and roll type of plays where he needs to catch and finish fluidly. I don't know how his raw finishing ability is around the hoop because he doesn't get many opportunities created for him. Hes never able to get a head of steam and some space heading toward the rim where all he has to do is catch and finish. So far I've been underwhelmed by his finishing at close range but it is a lot harder when the defense is is bodying you up and you have to get up without any momentum.

    Both have question marks. Ultimately its hard to complain about a 6'10 240 lbs PF who measured out a good athlete, loves playing defense and is good at it, has a pretty solid J, handle and passing game coming in. I'm sure they ran him through plenty of pick and roll situations when he worked out for us. Its a close call because Monroe is so young but its hard to teach toughness, commitment to defense, athleticism. Those are three things we've wanted in a big man for a long time. We got a guy who does that AND actually seems to have a good IQ and some skill on offense. Both of these guys have question marks and may not have a very high ceiling. Both could surprise me though. College systems can often restrict players. That's why I'm excited to see summer league. I think we'll get a better picture of how Udoh projects (even though the no name guards may never give him the ball).
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  13. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    That was a cop out by Run. LOL
     
  14. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    If you look at it from the Hornets perspective at #11, they wanted Udoh to fall by making him look bad.

    Too bad we didn't do that for Cousins. I would love to have seen Nelson take Cousins out to a cheeseburger joint, bet him $1000.00 he couldn't eat ten cheeseburgers in fifteen minutes and then a Warriors lackey take video of him wolfing down ten cheeseburgers. Pre-draft youtube gold.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  15. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    I put "for need" in quotes because they keep saying BPA and I don't see him being the BPA in any shape or form. So the only assumption left is that they went for need.

    Side Note...One of my colleagues who is close to a couple of the players claims that he heard Nellie label Udoh "Tyrone Hill with Hands." I have no clue if that's true or not, if he ends up being that guy, then I'll be fine taking him at 6.
     
  16. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    Most people thought Greg Monroe was the BAP at #6. Udoh was slated to go 6 - 9. If you believe Riley, Nelson and some others like Run BJM, then Udoh was BAP at #6. At this point, if Udoh lives up to billing we got a great pick. Okay, if Monroe turns out to be a decent center, then it could be different.
     
  17. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Well I would have rather gone with Paul George or Xavier Henry I think but between Udoh and Monroe...I'd go with Udoh I think.

    Here's a piece from Steinmentz regarding Udoh's post scoring:
    http://www.csnbayarea.com/06/25/10/..._steinmetz_v3.html?blockID=260787&feedID=5986

    I don't really agree with him on this. Udoh is fluid and fundamental but I don't think he would actually be more effective than Randolph or Wright. Wright particularly has really nice touch on his post moves, the kind of touch and finishing ability needed to score in the post. Randolph is a little wild but I've seen him throw some nice moves in the post and convert. I think Udoh is in fact more of a face up player than a post player- he looks a lot more effective in the triple threat where he can rise up for a J, use his quickness to get around guys, or pass the ball. FWIW I also saw some of the post-draft interviews with Riley and Udoh where they both said GS has talked about using him on the elbow.
     
  18. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I think Wright is the best and since he's older and hopefully even stronger, we are going to see the lefty hook blossom.
     

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