US government sues Arizona over anti-immigration law

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Jul 6, 2010.

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  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We do. Aren't there about 100K troops in Afghanistan right now?

    Though the point is that we have obligations under our laws to provide Equal Protection Under the Law to anyone within our borders.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 28, 2010
    #121
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Borders do mean something. At our borders, the protection of our govt. basically ends. Though our borders extend well beyond the 48 states on the mainland and Hawaii and Alaska. In theory, our borders extend to include every US embassy in the world, our overseas military bases, and territories that aren't states.

    Note that I made a distinction between someone living here paying taxes and collecting benefits (be those SS or other social services), and anyone who's never been here.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 28, 2010
    #122
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Denny Crane, Jul 28, 2010
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  4. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I think by "free borders," he meant "open borders" not "no borders." I agree with borders as a demarcation for where a particular government's direct influence ends, but I think they should be open for people to pass through freely.
     
    Minstrel, Jul 28, 2010
    #124
  5. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    And shouldn't the government protect its citizens from invasion? What if MS-13--an organized gang--comes in illegally, come into a neighborhood and terrorizes it? What if they murder people?

    Bottom line, Arizona wouldn't have to try to enforce the Federal laws if the Federal government would just do what it's supposed to do.
     
    maxiep, Jul 28, 2010
    #125
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Free borders means people are free to cross in either direction.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 28, 2010
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  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We have laws against terrorism and murder. Arrest those who do it, whether they're citizens or not, and put them on trial. Lock 'em up and throw away the key. BUT, they're subject to Due Process, right to face their accusors, right to a speedy trial, right to a trial by jury, etc.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 28, 2010
    #127
  8. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Why not stop it its source? Why wait until it happens?
     
    maxiep, Jul 28, 2010
    #128
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Right. Let's invade Iraq because they have WMDs. No reason to wait until they use them.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 28, 2010
    #129
  10. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    1. Iraq is now a democracy. None of the Arab nations now fear Iraq invading their territory and wreaking havoc on their economies or oil reserves.

    2. You go ahead and side with those who come to this country to commit crimes. I prefer to stop them at the border.
     
    maxiep, Jul 28, 2010
    #130
  11. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    We hardly need your permission to side with the people who come here to commit crimes, thanks.

    I'd prefer to put them in Congress. We can keep an eye on them there, media will follow them around incessantly. It will be much harder for them to secretively deal drugs, murder people or steal US jobs (other than Congressmen/women, but those are jobs that decent Americans don't want anyway).
     
    Minstrel, Jul 28, 2010
    #131
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    For the moment. It's not like democracies can't invade other countries. See, e.g., US vs. Iraq.

    You are on record saying that your objection to illegal immigration is the illegal part. So if the gummint said that it was legal to cross the border freely, you'd have no issue with it?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 28, 2010
    #132
  13. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    No two democracies have ever gone to war against one another. The more democracies in the region, the better. Nice try, though.

    Aw, changing the subject much? You don't have to do high school debate to see a dropped argument on a flow chart.
     
    maxiep, Jul 28, 2010
    #133
  14. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I see you're in a silly mood. You have fun.
     
    maxiep, Jul 28, 2010
    #134
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So, war is ok, as long as it isn't two democracies? Making war on "them" is just fine? You made the claim that others in the middle east had nothing to fear from Iraq now that it was a democracy. Since the others in the region aren't democracies, I don't see how they are protected by the magical no democracy-on-democracy action rule.

    Not sure why you think addressing illegal immigration is changing the subject, since this thread is titled "US government sues Arizona over anti-immigration law".

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #135
  16. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    We're both in silly moods, dear. :) I mean, people who don't know you as well as I do might think you were being huffy and petulant with your "You can feel free to take the side of criminals" comment, but I know you were being your mischievous, scampish self and I was bantering back in the same spirit.

    People don't get your funny, light-hearted side. I do. It's okay...it's me!
     
    Minstrel, Jul 29, 2010
    #136
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    All women should have forced abortions then? That way, no criminals will ever be born. Stop it at the source!

    I don't get it. Sorry.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 29, 2010
    #137
  18. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Denny, if the majority of the US agrees with you (more importantly, if the majority of Senate with consent of the President) and passes a law that says "The US Border is now OPEN!", then you can have all the free immigration you can ask for. Until then (which I don't think will happen soon), why are laws not being enforced?
     
    BrianFromWA, Jul 29, 2010
    #138
  19. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The obvious answer is that a lot of businesses depend on illegal immigrant labor, and cutting it off would cause them (and therefore the US) economic pain.

    All the border patrol, fencing, and so on is basically a sham. If the US actually wanted to stop illegal immigration, they'd go after the businesses that hire them. That would be cheaper and far more effective, and less dangerous for all concerned.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #139
  20. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Political cowardice, political pandering, and conspiracy to defraud American Citizens by rigging elections and keeping wages low are the most obvious reasons.
     
    MARIS61, Jul 29, 2010
    #140
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