Sabonis dominating the US, aged 18

I played HS basketball with Steve Woodside at Parkrose. He was very skilled for a HS player. I forgot that he played on that team

 

Yep, that's indeed how Atlanta lost the rights to Sabas. Check his wiki page.

 

I remember watching a game on live TV between the Soviets and the US, a year or so after the posted video. Sabas (I believe 19 or 20 at the time) dominated much better competition (I think Ewing and/or Sampson was on the US squad, along with some other pretty good bigs). Sabas just overpowered the US centers. I remember one play where he backed down his defender and looked like he was going to shoot a hook shot, only when the ball got to the top of his reach, he didn't let go, he continued to follow through with a massive sweeping dunk right over his defender. He looked like a man among boys, and I remember thinking at the time, "If this is the kind of player the Soviets are producing, the US will never will another Olympic gold medal". He was that dominant.

BNM

 

I prefer more conclusive sources of information than user submitted articles... Too much stuff on the internet is rumors regurgitated as fact, whether or not that is relevant here.

 

Basketball-refence.com has the same info, iirc. Regardless, it's the truth. And studies (I'll dig them up if you like) have shown that wikipedia is no more prone to errors than a hardcover encyclopedia... Just harder to read because the editors are all asperger's nerds.

 

Like I said, I'm not saying you're wrong. It just doesn't jive with what I remember, and I don't trust constantly shifting Wikipedia articles for anything but mundane historical stuff. I'm confused though, what being under 21 had to do with anything? There wasn't an age limit back then, was there? There sure wasn't for Moses Malone, Magic and Bird... Did they briefly add one in the mid-80's or did the restriction only apply to international players? I'm not finding an answer on Google...

 

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No one knows the answer? This is why I don't trust regurgitated internet articles that don't make sense...

 

Since you're the one with the big mission to out the internet as being wrong about this, why not look into some newspapers around the 1986 draft?

 

That's not the question I asked... What's the deal with the supposed age restriction (less than 21) at the time? There was no age limit before or after that time period, and I haven't seen any references to one during that period. That's a pretty important piece to the puzzle, don't you think?

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that, considering the pick was voided, there was some type of age restriction in place.......why are you questioning it.

 

No, that was the Olympics.

 

Replace Duck with a healthy Sabas, and you have a dynasty. Shit, Duck coming off the bench? Insane.

 

There were a couple of issues with Sabas not coming over until he was past his prime. First, was his lack of rehab with his legs. One injury caused another by overcompensating caused another by overcompensating, etc., etc. With NBA rehab, he would have kept some of that athleticism.

Second, was the European style. They played once a week. Conditioning and weight training wasn't really part of the ACB game. At Valladolid and Real Madrid, he was just so much better than anyone else he faced. He just enjoyed his life. He brought those habits here. Give Sabas 3-5 years of a serious weight training program and get him used to the NBA lifestyle instead of the ACB lifestyle and you have a different player.

I'm so happy we actually got to see him in the Scarlet & Black. When I lived in Spain I used to see him play and tell my Spanish friends that one day he'd come play for MY team. I hope the Blazers bring Sabas back for a HOF night to honor him.

 

Why wouldn't you (I) question something that doesn't fit any of the known facts? Unless someone can point to there having been an age restriction at the time, it seems fairly likely that the common explanation is erroneous.

 

Not for me. I'd recognize him anywhere. I played against Skiles in HS. He was a freshman when I was a senior. Cocky little shit, but quite the baller. His performance during the 1982 Indiana State High School tournament is the stuff of legends. Like Hoosiers II, the sequel. That was back in the day when all schools in the state played in a single tournament. Led by Skiles, Plymouth defeated two much bigger (in both height and enrollment) teams to win the state championship - the smallest school to do so since the Milan Miracle in 1954.

Skiles scored a combined 69 points in the semi-final and final games. Both games were played on the same day (fuck back-to-backs, back then it was very common to play two games in a single day, three games in two days was common and four games in two days not all that unusual during the state tournament). Skiles scored 30 points in the morning semi-final game and then 39 points in the double overtime championship game. I remember watching it on TV. Skiles hit a 22-footer to send the game into the first overtime and then led his team to the double overtime win.

BNM

 

Yep, 1988 Olympics in Seoul. Sabonis lead the Soviets to the gold medal over David Robinson and the US squad - and that was after Sabonis had ruptured both achilles tendons.

BNM

 

Jesus, still arguing this same non-issue? I remember at the time the pick being voided due to Sabonis being underage, but I doubt that is very convincing. Would a quote directly from the official web site of the NBA sway you, or will you still insist you are right and the entire rest of the world is wrong?

Here's a direct quote from Arvyds Sabonis' player file on nba.com

"Selected by the Atlanta Hawks in the fourth round (77th pick overall) of the 1985 NBA Draft; the pick was later disallowed by NBA officials, who found Sabonis to be too young to be eligible for the draft."

Good enough, or do you still insist that "the common explanation is erroneous"?

BNM

 

Handiman has an EXCELLENT question, except that he's too spacey to word it right. His real question is,

Okay, okay, so the OFFICIAL excuse for disallowing Sabonis in the 1985 draft was that he was under 21 on Draft Day. I'm asking, how does that make SENSE, not, whether it is the OFFICIAL excuse. It is INCONSISTENT with history. Why has that supposed rule not been enforced on other draftees?
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Limitations of Basketball-Reference: 1) It will only find it by age on Feb. 1 of their rookie seasons. (Sabonis was 21 by then.) 2) It will only find this for those who played, not those who were drafted, so the list is really longer.

Limitation I added: Only search up to the watershed year of 1995. (That's when Kevin Garnett started the modern influx of high schoolers drafted directly into the NBA.)

Preliminary result: 142 players played (not just, were drafted) at age 21 or younger, before 1995.

sorted by season
http://bkref.com/tiny/ootI9

sorted by age
http://bkref.com/tiny/m1INe

Method: Then you check each player individually to find who was under 21 on Draft Day.

I only checked Sabonis's own 1985 draft. (I leave all other years to You the Reader as homework.) Benoit Benjamin was 1 month older than him, Kenny Green 2 months older, and Pete Williams 3 months younger. All were drafted in 1985 when younger than 21, and played in 1985-86.

Conclusion: The official excuse is a lie.

If there was a higher age for foreign players than American college players, then the official excuse should include that information instead of simply saying, "Sabonis was disallowed because he was under 21." Besides, the age requirement for foreign pros usually goes the other way with a lower, not higher, age.

Does a list of official 1985 draft rules exist, including this age rule? Or does the media just report later that there was a mystery rule, to justify what Stern already did?