Facts are facts. That's all I posted. If you read them as complaints, that says more than I could ever say.
The article is extremely high in English skills, but the content is way too vague. The author doesn't give specifics on how the coach should relate to players. He just says that a good coach can figure it out. We already knew that. When Andre Miller had his tirade yelling at McMillan, it could have gone the same as Miles-Cheeks. Instead, McMillan acted regretful afterward. I was surprised. I think that incident is key to understanding his tough guy act.
Very solid point. A lot of coaches have lost control of their players/team after such incidents. Mo Cheeks and PJ Carlesimo immediately come to mind. Instead of losing the player/team, Miller started playing much better, and Nate apologized for his approach in delivering his message, but not his actual message. Both guys came across as extremely professional in the aftermath of that practice. A lot of teams would have gone sideways after it.
good article, thanks for the link. To me, the article was singing the praises of KP. He drafted talented players with good attitudes and sang culture, culture, culture. Once he got Roy and LMA to buy in and get rid of Randolph, it's not that hard for the coach. Nate has made mistakes, but I happy with how he's done. The article also reminded me of Mike Dunleavy. Awesome Xs and Os guy, not so good at motivating the modern player.
I'm probably one of the only Dunleavy fans out there. Mostly because one of my favorite players of all time, Rasheed, played so damned well under the guy. Sure, Sheed hated his guts, but there's no denying that the last 4 years Dunleavy coached him, he built a fantastic low post game, became a great defender, and was constantly getting better. Dunleavy gets fired and Sheed coasts on his results in his first season under Cheeks. Cheeks lets him float out to the perimeter (because he's a "players coach"), and thus began the steady decline. Within 3 years his PER dropped from 20 to 16, and he was a quality starter but a three-point-chucking shadow of his former self. Someday Sheed should write a thank you note to Dunleavy for that ridiculous contract. "THANK YOU YOU MOTHER FUCKING DICK! I HATE YOUR FUCKING GUTS BUT I SURE LOVE SPENDING ALL THIS FUCKING MONEY! FUCK!" Dunleavy was kind of unlikeable. Which is definitely a huge liability as an NBA coach. If he had Cheeks' charisma (or Cheeks had Dunleavy's talent), he'd probably still be coaching the team. In many ways I think McMillan is a combination of the best of both guys.
I'm sorry OddTroll, but I'll take Mike Krzyzewski's perception of a coach any day over the fast majority of assholes, er I mean opinions
thats not the only part of his premise that is messed up, his Warrior history is askew as well. It wasn't Nelson who had issues with Weber, it was the Warriors horrible rookie owner Chris Cohan who didn't want to pay him. CW achieved an out in his rookie contract by winning ROY and hitting some statistical requirements. The club was free from the regular rookie pay scale that we now have and could have given him the sort of contract that a top talent garners (I recall him wanting 10M-ish per year). Cohan dragged his feet that offseason and ultimately offered him a 7 year contract for 6M per knowing that every team with capspace had already spent it. Dude was playing hardball betting that Weber wouldn't take the scraps others could offer and would sign well below what he could get on the open market. CW of course was pissed about this burned bridges with the Warriors publicly, but didn't say it was all about the money for PR sake. Nelson was the fall guy taking the blame for his owners gamble/cheapness. Beyond that, I really didn't buy much of what the article was selling. Like you and a few who commented in the article itself, I side with the talent wins view. I'm not some big fan of DN's, but he's done a lot with not much. He's never really had a great team to speak of. Some good but flawed teams, yet dude is first in all time coaching wins. STOMP
Coaches have a lot of jobs, but the two main ones are 1) x's and o's, and 2) getting the team motivated and on the same page. Nate has #2 very well, but is deficient in #1. However, with new assistant coaches who are supposed to be good x's, and o's guys, hopefully that will be enough to make the NATE TEAM a great coaching team.
Yes. Oh, and as someone once said, where would Phil Jackson be without the insights of, one, Tex Winter?
Yes, isn't it brilliant that our 10 year veteran NBA coach is so highly thought of as an assistant by a COLLEGE coach. Full steam ahead! Calling someone a troll or an asshole is not an argument. In fact, those kinds of comments usually come into play when one doesn't have an argument.
No, Webber hated Nelson's guts for the dirty disrespectful motivational tricks he pulled on Webber. It took a few years for Webber to make up with him, and I think that was just for show.
right. It wasn't the owner offering to slight him 10's of millions of dollars, it was Nelson's "dirty disrespectful motivational tricks"... dude signed for 2M with the Wiz with nothing longterm guaranteed and completed his career going full circle to play for DN and the Warriors again. What I'm relaying about contracts was reported here in the Bay at the time STOMP
Remember Webber's gameface wrinkled in hatred? Nelson really did a number on him. It didn't surprise me a few months later when Webber recoiled in disgust at what he was becoming under Nelson's tutelage. Nelson later said he was just using Red Auerbach's methods. Auerbach sure did it better. I don't doubt you that contract negotiations later added to the worsening relationship. But I think it was over by then anyway.
10's of millions of dollars vs speculation from some guy on what was going through a player's head that time 18 years ago he looked all angry reports were Chris was pretty upset about being offered a take it or leave it deal at roughly 30M less then other top Bigs were commanding...Cohan was supposed to be pretty heavy handed/involved in that negotiation... he was also reported to have ordered Nelson to tamper CW's minutes down to keep him from achieving the out in his contract. Believe what you want but I'm hanging my hat on the money especially when you're talking those sorts of dollars Consider how contentious a relationship Cohan had with the stadium, county and pretty much anyone he did business with... dude was at war with everyone especially early on in his time. STOMP
I'm not speculating. There were many articles about Webber's rebellion against his motivational techniques, later about Nelson's major errors having been losing Webber because of that and trading 3 No. 1s for Shawn Bradley, and a few years later, about Webber making motions to apparently make up. Each set of articles said Webber was mad about the way Nelson had treated him. The only thing not objectified in the media was my seeing Webber's contorted face screwed in anger while playing, which I thought was against the other team, but later suspected was against his coach when I read of Webber's anger. But I don't doubt that money made it worse.
the money was the main thing, he just couldn't bitch about that publicly and not seem like a greedy ass. Doing so would have curbed his public appeal which is of course tied directly to his ability to justify a franchise player level contract. Once Cohan lowballed him with a take it or walk offer he needed a scapegoat reason (other then money) to burn his Warrior bridges and DN took the fall If you really read multiple articles at the time, then you'll recall a public riff as Webber's rookie season wound down about his minutes/role being limited to low 30's despite him playing terrific and being the only decent Big on the club. Again, Nelson took most of the the public blame for this especially in the initial articles, but later reports surfaced that DN was doing this by Cohan's direction. Webber was very motivated to achieve the out in his contract and get paid, and felt the organization was working against his efforts to achieve this goal. Why wouldn't the organization want him to win the ROY? Which guy makes more sense/had motivation to be limiting Webber's minutes/role? The coach who's job it is to win games or the new owner (who coach has to answer to) who had recently overextended himself buying the club? The later speculation fits the pattern of how CC operated during his ownership. He injected himself into the basketball operations time and again, sued seemingly everyone he did business with and exemplified penny wise/dollar stupid with a laundry list of face-spiting decisions. Living in SF most of the Cohan era gave me an appreciation for P. Allen http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/07/chris_cohan_warriors_lacob_guber.php http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-cohanwarriors101209 STOMP
Your first link says So Cohan inherited the situation, which was caused before he became owner. This writer says that most people ("situation is often described") don't think Cohan was the cause, but the writer says he differs with the majority ("your humble narrator has always felt") when he believes that Cohan "ruined everything" and is really the one to blame. Your second link (from a past year) says This portrays Stephen Jackson as practically psychotic during some games, yelling at Nelson. How does this contradict my contention that Nelson uses weird motivational techniques that make a player go psycho. Notice that Jackson's personality changed as soon as he escaped Nelson via trade. Same with Webber. Then you say As a former Sonic fan, I sure agree with you that an impoverished owner group takes all the fun out of being a fan. Blazer fans are spoiled rotten by Allen and don't know how good they have it.
you're grasping at straws to justify your earlier statements. Cohan was a minority owner prior to grossly overpaying for them and becoming the guy. Of course he somewhat inherited their past with the purchase, but he was part of the ownership team that hired managment and the coaches (including Nelson). As the main owner he drafted Webber. The situation was his and he went on to royally fuck it up while placing the blame on everyone else. yeah Stephen Jackson is a real class act prior to and post W's you really don't recall him beating fans in the stands in the Detroit Indy brawl? How about when he discharged his gun outside a strip club in another brawl. He sure has a nice sane tatoo on his stomach. Geez my Pacer fans laughed their cans off when the Warriors traded for him. answer my question on who had the motivation to create the riff between Webber and the W's by limiting his minutes. Is it the coach who didn't want to play his best player and only decent big man because of some weird motivational techniques he learned from Red Auerbach or the owner who didn't want to pay the going rate? STOMP
In summary, in Post #32 I disagreed with your statement, "It wasn't Nelson who had issues with Webber." Since I was right, you changed the issue to a more ambiguous, unresolveable one, by basically saying-- Sure, Nelson had issues with Webber, but the bigger cause of Webber leaving was his conflict with owner Cohan, not coach Nelson.
