Time to cut Israel loose?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by MARIS61, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
  2. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,438
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I'd be fine with not giving Israel money. I actually think that is very called for in a time when we should be looking to cut spending.
     
  3. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,725
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    dental malpractice claims adjuster
    Location:
    Portland area
    It's not time to cut Israel loose, but I've always wondered why we gave them so much and received so little in return.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Jimmy Carter bought peace between Egypt and Israel by guaranteeing both would receive a lot of foreign aid dollars.

    http://middleeast.about.com/od/arabisraeliconflict/f/camp-david-accords.htm

    For almost two weeks at Camp David, Carter shuttled between Sadat and Begin, often doing his utmost to keep the talks from breaking down. Sadat and Begin never met face to face for 10 days. Sadat was ready to leave Camp David on the 11th day. So was Begin. Carter cajoled, threatened, bribed (with what eventually would become the United States' two biggest foreign-aid packages, one for Egypt, one for Israel), though he never threatened Israel with an aid cut-off, as Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford had in their tense moments with Israel.
     
  5. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    As your own blurb points out, the US has been sending money to Israel since long before Carter. I realize you have an obsessive hatred of Carter, but trying to blame him for everything that's happened in US history is a bit silly. :)
     
  6. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    Especially when you look at how badly Nixon and Ford failed at keeping peace in the Mid-East.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Blame? I don't see it as blame.

    I see it as an obligation he made for us that we're stuck with.
     
  8. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,859
    Likes Received:
    146,141
    Trophy Points:
    115
    If only we would have encouraged the Jews to settle in Mexico instead of where they are now...
     
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,411
    Likes Received:
    25,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Then what? We could get a good bagel south of the border?

    barfo
     
  10. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I see unbalancing the area by pumping far more aid and weapons into Isreal than Palestine as blame-worthy. And it goes back much further than Carter.

    He and other Presidents made for us.
     
  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,859
    Likes Received:
    146,141
    Trophy Points:
    115
    We could send our old people to retire to Mexico instead of Florida!
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    No other presidents made any obligations to Israel for us. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to name another president who obligated us to making yearly payments to Israel before Carter.

    BTW,

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

     
  13. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Aid is an obligation made on our (the people's) behalf, even if it is not yearly. I wasn't making a distinction between one-time obligations and continuing obligations.

    As for your "BTW," the Palestinian people are not interchangeable with "the Arab states." The US unbalanced Israel with respect to the Palestinian people. I said nothing about the rest of the Arab world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  14. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    8,309
    Likes Received:
    3,944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Buy a recipe binder at CookbookPeople.com
    Location:
    Jolly Olde England
    I don't know anything about this particular "obligation," but is our country really accountable for an ongoing commitment it's been fulfilling since 1978? Do we plan on sending dough there in the year 2099 because of something a president (or presidents) promised decades and decades ago?

    Personally, it just sounds silly to me that we're somehow locked into paying Israel because of Jimmy Carter. Hell, we were locked into solar power in the White House until the day after he lost his election.
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,411
    Likes Received:
    25,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I sense some sort of semantic game here. We've made annual payments to Israel since the 1940s. Given that, does it matter if we are "obligated" or not?

    barfo
     
  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,859
    Likes Received:
    146,141
    Trophy Points:
    115
    I wonder how much aid Israel is willing to give us to bomb the $hit out of Iran for them?
     
  17. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I'll do it for just a few billion in aid.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    We have no obligation to pay $.01 in foreign aid to the Palestinian people, yet we do. Rather generous of us.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Article VI of our Constitution:

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
     
  20. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,859
    Likes Received:
    146,141
    Trophy Points:
    115
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page