Taj Playing Great but Still Heading for Demotion

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by TomBoerwinkle#1, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Tribune

     
  2. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Sun Times

     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  3. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    On the brighter side, he seems like exactly the sort of guy a team like Denver or Memphis would like. Although I was noticing the other day that the Griz' Darrell Arthur played very well, a la Taj, in the absence of Zach Randolph
     
  4. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    If guys like Taj keep growing and developing their games, then there isn't really a need for Melo, just a better SG. If Taj develops a decent post game, he becomes a candidate for an 8 figure contract too...
     
  5. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you're greatly underestimating Anthony's value. He's arguably the best scorer in the league. He scores in the post, and from three. He threads passes when he gets doubled. He scores in the last two minutes. He's an offensive genius.

    If Taj's can continue to produce what he has, and maybe improve upon that, both of which are probably not likely to happen, but possible, then he makes Boozer somewhat redundant. We still could use Anthony just as much as before.
     
  6. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    I think you greatly overestimate Anthony's all-around game. Why has he only made it to the conference finals once and lost in the first round in 5 of 6 years? Denver has a good enough team to play with the Lakers, why does Melo want to leave? He's got a bad head for the game and doesn't seem to be driven to get a championship like some of the other guys of his caliber.

    That said, I still think he's a better finisher than anybody else in the league, and a truly gifted scorer. But his head is never in the right place it seems. So unless you have a coach who can get in his head and get it right, I don't think he's a guy who gets you championships. Unless something changes, I think it would be really frustrating to root for a Melo led team.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Denver doesn't have enough big men to compete with the Lakers. Neither do the Celtics, really, and they have like 6 of them.

    Melo was an integral part of a world championship team, so he does get you championships.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Head to head.

    Deng 6-18, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 17 points.

    Anthony 11-22, 9-9 FT, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers, 4 steals, 2 blocks, 32 points.

    The rest of the team had to make up 15 points elsewhere to overcome the losing match up at this position.
     
  9. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    And yet they won and Melo lost. Two years ago Denver was a couple of plays from beating the Lakers. They have plenty of bigs to beat the lakers assuming they get healthy. But that assumes Melo is the guy to carry them over the hump. And he doesn't seem to be able to do it.

    And give me a break, Melo has lost more world championships than he's won. And he's on an all-star team, so I am pretty sure they would have won that medal easily without him. He's got one gold medal, right? He was an integral part of the '04 team that lost, too, wasn't he?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He's made more conference finals than anyone on our team aside from Scalabrine. Maybe Kirk Thomas has been there, too. By your logic, Rose must really suck. Or Deng - he's played a year less than Melo.

    By any measure, Melo's a significantly better player than Deng - and pretty much everyone but a few in the whole league, for that matter. He scores like our SF and a 2nd 15 point scorer. Kind of makes up for having a 3PPG scorer at SG.
     
  11. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Statistics aside, I remember how much easier it was to win when we had Gordon and Deng was our third-option on offense. We miss that.
     
  12. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    FJ alluded to this in another thread, but I think the biggest upside of Taj's play is his usefulness as a bargaining chip.

    He's got three things going for him:

    1). He's still on a rookie contract
    2). He plays in the frontcourt, where good players are relatively more scarce.
    3). His game and personality are bland in a really good way. There are no warning signs with Taj.

    His combination of good play, redundancy on our team, and dirt cheap contract might end up making him a disproportionately good trading piece, either to a good team looking to get a little bit better, or a team that really sucks and is bleeding cash.

    There are potentially a lot of good Taj Gibson trade scenarios out there.
     
  13. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    I've already said that I'd trade Deng for Melo straight up. But including Noah looks ridiculous now, and Taj looks like a solid starter now and will be fantastic bench depth when Boozer comes back. At this point, I wouldn't go farther than Deng, JJ, and Asik and some picks for Melo.
     
  14. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Okay, what's missing from KC's article titled "Gibson playing great, headed for demotion"?

    [insert Jeopardy theme]

    Answer:

    Any talk from the coaching staff suggesting he won't be starting when Boozer comes back.

    My moneys on the coaching staff bringing Boozer along slowly off the bench while he works himself into shape. The Bulls need scoring and rebounding off the bench and much better players than Boozer have played as a sixth man, think Kevin McHale. I think the injury provides them the perfect excuse to test Boozer out as the first substitution.
     
  15. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I thought along the same lines when I posted the article but didn't add the comment -- although I think long term, Boozer is eventually going to get the starting nod.
     
  16. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Boozer broke his hand, didn't he? There's no reason he shouldn't be in shape. Depending on the details of his cast, there's a good chance he's able to lift weights as well.

    I don't think Boozer should need too much of a 'breaking in' period.
     
  17. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Agree 100%. My main fear/concern is whether he's becomeing so good that we really would want to ignore a lot of them. I'm still pretty high on Asik, but I don't know that I want him to be our third big. A third high quality big is a pretty important piece of a team.

    No offense, but that seems like a crazy Neil Funkism to me. McHale only went to the bench because he was falling apart. The Bulls don't need scoring and rebounding off the bench. They need scoring and rebounding. Period. Boozer is a way better player than Taj, but still, when Taj goes to the bench, he will provide an upgrade in the "scoring and rebounding off the bench" role.

    I know it's a totally nutty and contrarian theory, but how about we just start the five best guys? I'm a big fan of Ed Pinckney as coach, but I don't see the need to him to propagate the welfare recipient NBA starter theory just because he was once a beneficiary. And ultimately, that's usually what this idea of bringing your best players off the bench seems to be. At best, it's a matchup trickery the other team can and will easily account for. At worst, it's playing some kind of head game with your high priced talent in a time everyone should be past playing games. Which is why the coaching staff would have to find an "excuse" to do something. Usually, if you have to find an excuse, it's because the thing you want to do is not a very good idea!

    He might shoot like garbage for a while, but that seems pretty irrelevant to whether he starts or comes off the bench, no? If he's not well enough to play, it'll manifest itself whether he comes off the bench or starts.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    For much of his career, McHale was 6th man. He only became a starter when the guys ahead of him got old and retired and the Celtics' depth was really thin.
     
  19. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    My only point of records is watching classic games from the Celtics championship teams. It looked like they brought McHale in after the finished feeding Parish, like they used to do with centers back in the '80s. I know I shouldn't have to say this but, Christ, he was good. Unbelievable motor, court vision, touch and anticipation.
     
  20. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Oh, we're talking about at the beginning of his career when he came off the bench behind Cedric Maxwell?

    Well, Cedric Maxwell was a Boston icon, an NBA Finals MVP, and generally an absurdly good player, especially in the post, in his own right. If Taj turns into Cedric Maxwell, then yeah, we'll have a real question on our hands.

    But generally, I think the abilities of McHale and Maxwell sort of underscore why I don't think there should be much question between Taj vs. Boozer. McHale was certainly a better player than Maxwell over the course of his career, but for the first few seasons, while McHale was young and Maxwell was in his prime, Maxwell was the better, more accomplished player, and that's who you start and play the most.
     

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