Thoughts on the popular vote vs. Electoral College

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Dec 13, 2010.

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  1. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    BTW, you missed my point. You can communicate with as many people as are in the Bay Area, but they're spread around a thousand miles rather than 50 miles. It's a tougher job. I think the bar should be set high for our candidates. Rural folks matter too.
     
    maxiep, Dec 13, 2010
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  2. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    It's not a tougher job, it's a less efficient job. Talking to the same number of people spread over 1000 miles rather than 100 miles means more time is spent traveling and less time is spent time talking to and listening to people.
     
    Minstrel, Dec 13, 2010
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  3. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Sure they do. I remember both candidates going to all the states you mentioned with derision. If it were a popular vote, no one would waste the time or effort because you could reach as many voters with much less of both.

    And I do think candidates should campaign in Malheur County. I don't think running for political office is a "big city attraction"; I think it's something for all the people.

    I'm not arguing for any special privileges; I just don't want entire sections of the country to be ignored. Given that you seem to hold those kind of people in contempt, I'm not surprised at your position.
     
    maxiep, Dec 13, 2010
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  4. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Gosh, what a shame that they'd have to work to talk to people that live in all regions of the country. Wouldn't it be great if people in major metropolitan areas were the only ones allowed to vote? Hey, how about just the Northeast? That would make the job really easy for the candidates; it would be very efficient.

    Again, there's a real difference between people that live in urban areas and rural ones. I don't want anyone ignored.
     
    maxiep, Dec 13, 2010
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  5. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    The EC is made up of the 435 members of the House and the 100 Senators. Each House member would vote the results of its own district while the Senators would vote the majority of the state. In the case of Texas (if your numbers are right), 22 votes would go to the GOP while 12 would go to the Democrats. Right now, all 34 would go to the GOP.
     
    maxiep, Dec 13, 2010
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  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Ah, ok. I like that plan a lot, for the reasons you stated earlier.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 13, 2010
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  7. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Well, I'm all for them talking to as many people as possible, throughout the nation. I'm even for them talking to people in other nations...the more viewpoints the better. I just understand why they hit major population centers...when you have limited time and you want to get your message to as many people as possible, population density is the way to go.

    But that's pretty much already the case. I don't see that changing even if they ditched the electoral college. What the electoral college actually means is that, due to the disproportionate allocation of electoral votes compared to population, a rural voter's vote counts for more than an urban voter's vote.

    To quote a noted dealer of ad hominems, I can see why you'd want it that way...but it does violate the principle of each citizen having an equal voice in elections.
     
    Minstrel, Dec 13, 2010
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  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The electoral college is 538, hence 270 to get an absolute majority. No state has fewer than 2.
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 13, 2010
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  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's not the case at all. It's cheaper to advertise to everyone in the state of Montana or South Dakota than it is to the city of San Jose.

    [​IMG]
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 13, 2010
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  10. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Whether or not that's true, I was referring to actual public appearances. The major party candidates run ads in every state/area that they feel is not "safe" for one side or the other.
     
    Minstrel, Dec 13, 2010
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  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Really? I sure don't. Wikipedia doesn't either - not that that necessarily proves anything, but I can't find a better source at the moment.

    I don't even think that's true. It doesn't take much time to touch the plane down, shake a few hands, make a speech. Pandering to rural voters would still be done, although perhaps less than it is now. There would still be reason to want the rural vote (and the urban vote that sympathizes with the rural vote, such as yourself?).

    There are limits, however. Unless we are going to have 20 year long campaigns, no candidate can visit every burg in the nation.

    You are arguing for special privileges for land.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 13, 2010
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  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Well, they'd raise a lot more money and spend it entirely on advertising going from biggest city to next biggest city until the polls say they win. But in the graphic I posted, Gore won most of the bigger cities and Bush lost the popular vote even though all the teeny tiny towns and counties outside those big cities add up to more population.

    More importantly, Bush won in counties with almost 20M more people, yet lost the popular vote. Why? Because barely half the eligible voters actually do vote. Hence the question about quorum and absolute majority.
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 13, 2010
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  13. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not sure where you are going with that. You want to have a re-do if not enough people vote? Even fewer people would vote the second time, I'd bet.
    Maybe you could pay people to vote. Or force them at gunpoint.
    Or use vote-by-mail, that seems to work pretty well.
    Or vote-by-internet?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 13, 2010
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  14. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I like it. Elections with the same reliability as a Zogby Online Poll.
     
    Minstrel, Dec 13, 2010
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  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It would go to the House where they'd choose the president.

    Why not have a popular vote for all of congress, too? I mean, you have no respect for the states. Pelosi and her 9% approval rating can only win because her district supports her. In a national election, she'd get drubbed and her constituents would have not much say in things.
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 14, 2010
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  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I sense a recurring theme here. You are kind of turned on by having the House choose the president, aren't you?

    We currently do. There is no electoral college for congresspeeps. It's a direct election, guy with the most votes wins. You know, that system that you think would never work.

    Not true. As maxiep will tell you, I respect the states that have coastline.

    Well, I guess that's why she won't be running for President, then...

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 14, 2010
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  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The recurring theme is what's written in the constitution.

    And we don't have a popular vote for congress. Otherwise I could vote against Pelosi and Reid and Kerry.
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 14, 2010
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  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I think that constitution has been amended a few times as regards elections, so it isn't like it would be unbelievably radical to consider amending it once again. It may not have been amended as many times as the bible, but it is nevertheless not written in stone.

    I know what you are trying to say. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 14, 2010
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  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Do you know what you're trying to say?
     
    Denny Crane, Dec 14, 2010
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  20. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yep. Would you like me to use smaller words?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Dec 14, 2010
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