PapaG, you are making the case that PJ's PG's were bad because of the triangle. If you want to back up your wild leap of faith, it should be easy to tell us which of PJ's point guards would have posted a 19 PER in a system other than PJ's. What's the holdup? Go Blazers
LMA even went from a 19.1 PER to an 18.2 PER with the "upgrade" at PG. When your two best players, who are in their fourth season, both regress, and the only major change was PG, well, isn't it valid to criticize the PG?
Roy had his best season the year before, I agree. Of course, I don't think that was due to Blake, I think that was more Roy getting closer to his prime. He was hurt the next season (with Miller) which turned out to be a deteriorating condition (to the point that now Roy appears finished as an elite NBA player). Do you feel that Miller damaged Roy's knees? if so, I can see why you'd blame Miller.
I've already addressed that question. While Miller's PER last season was considerably better than BLANKY's, Roy's went from 24 to 21, and LMA went from 19 to 18. Basically, Roy went from a borderline MVP player (those that win titles) to a very good player (those that don't win titles) in one year, most of it healthy until the end. PER from the PG doesn't mean much to me in that instance, since Roy's game regressed, and the overall play of the team regressed, under Miller.
Roy should have changed his game to help his newly acquired, and far superior PG, become the best he could be, and to strengthen the biggest hole in his own skillset. Instead, he pouted, whined, and ultimately failed, as per usual, in the playoffs. He's an odd one, that Roy. Playing the exact same way over his entire NBA career, finally getting a chance to play with a legitimate PG, and then pinning the blame on the new guy. That's an idiotic position to take, and unsupported by any facts you've provided, or even any of the stuff you've made up. So, you think this team is better with AJ and PM playing the point? Go Blazers
The team won 50 games last year, in spite of Roy missing 17, Batum missing 45, Joel missing 52, Oden missing 61. Do you honestly think the team would have won 50 games last season without Andre Miller? Keep in mind that Miller was 3rd on the team in WS at 7.0, trailing only Roy (9.1) and Aldridge (8.8). This year, Roy is gone (and was ineffective while here) and Oden is gone. Miller is second on the team in WS at 3.7, trailing only Aldridge (4.8). The franchise is floundering due to injuries and a bench that was seriously, and unwisely, "thinned" by trades that brought nothing of immediate value in return. We went from talented and deep to lacking talent and shallow. That's not Andre Miller's fault. Perhaps you've not noticed, but Greg Oden hasn't played one second this season. Roy is out, and was a shadow of his former self when he did play. Przybilla is not the same player he was pre-injury. Yet, in spite of the depleted roster and horrible bench, the team has a winning record. Give me 82 games with a healthy Oden, a healthy Roy, Aldridge, Batum and Miller, with Wes Matthews, Marcus Camby, Martell, Webster and Jerryd Bayless coming off the bench, and I'd be seriously disappointed if they only won 54 games and didn't make it out of the first round. Problem is, that team has never existed - and it's NOT Andre Mill's fault. Stop trying to place the blame for the team's "lack" of success on one of the few players that is healthy enough to play every night and is making positive contributions that help the team win games. BNM
Umm, so Roy's injuries and resulting declining performance are now Andre Millers fault, too? Roy missed 17 games last season, and was not at 100% for most of the year. BNM
So, with Roy out and all of his BFFs gone, do you still blame Andre Miller of any lack of team chemistry? Seems to me, this current team has pretty good chemistry. What they lack is talent, and that's due to injury, not anything Andre Miller did. BNM
Bullshit and completely revisionist. Most of the games Roy missed were in January and February - and when he did play, he wasn't 100%. He "tweaked" the knee again right before the play-offs, but had been suffering the cumulative effects of his injuries for most of the regular season. Roy's regression had a LOT more to due with his injuries. The team won 4 fewer games with Oden, Roy, Batum and Przybilla missing a combined 175 games. Outlaw was also out for a couple months prior to his trade and Rudy missed several games due to his back surgery. That team was totally decimated by injuries, yet still won 50 games. Rather than blaming Andre Miller, you should be thanking him. BNM
OK, so if Miller gets 100% of the blame for Aldridge's regression from PER = 19.1 to 18.2, does he also get 100% of the credit for Aldridge's improvement from 18.2 to to 20.6? If so, that looks like a net gain to me. And seriously, Roy's declining performance has had a lot more to do with his injuries than his teammates. Or, if we waive Andre Miller do you actually expect Brandon Roy to immediately return to near MVP status with a PER of 24+? BNM
And, since Roy isn't playing anyway, why waive Miller now? It's not like Miller can further harm Roy's production. Oh, and while we're playing these cutesy little games, what about Wes Matthews? Last season in Utah, Matthews had a PER of 12.3. This season in Portland, he has a PER of 15.3. Therefore, by your "logic" Andre Miller must be a better PG than Deron Williams. Seriously, does this not make it clear how ridiculous your argument is? Players get better, players get worse, players get injured. Trying to pin those changes on one OTHER player is completely idiotic and devoid of sound reasoning. BNM
A certain couple of posters are getting sliced and diced with facts in this thread. Arguing until they're red in the face. Not healthy. When stats go against their argument, they are ignored. Oh, the inconvenient truth.
I agree. It's been proven that both Roy and LMA regressed as players last season with a new PG at the helm, and also that the team won 4 fewer games. Seems cut and dry to me.
21-20 You aren't even reading what I post, yet you post these rambling rants full of strawmen and tangents to try and disprove a point that I am not even making. Is Miller a better "player" than BLANKY? Sure. Is he better for the roster from the moment Miller was signed. I don't think so, and I think Miller needs to be traded if at all possible, or not have his option picked up afterward, because he is old and he has never proven to be a winnner in the NBA. Expecting him to suddenly be the PG for a title contender seems like a wish, more than anything based in fact.
Actually, you're offering spin to explain the facts that I posted. Basically, you're doing what you accuse me of doing earlier in this thread in relation to the facts that you posted. I guess we agree, then?
As far as being the Blazers' PG going forward, the only stat that blows Andre out of the water as far as I'm concerned is his birth date: Mar 19, 1976. The Blazers are in a retooling mode and a soon-to-be 35 year-old PG isn't a fit for a team in that situation. I don't think he has to be moved this year necessarily, but I would certainly do it for a deal that brought back somebody that does fit with competing a couple years down the road.
And, yet again, you COMPLETELY ignore the injuries this team has suffered, and the other roster changes. Back to ignore for you. I should have known better. I've said all I plan to say in this thread. It's clear the haters are going to keep hating Andre Miller no matter how illogical their "arguments". I don't understand the mentality, but have fun rooting for one of your own players to fail. Whatever floats your boat. I'd rather see the players do well as it helps my team win. But if the Blazers lose more games, and you can somehow, in your mind, pin those losses on Andre Miller, knock yourself out. Because it's clear no matter how well Miller plays, you will continue to disrespect him and hope he fails just to prop up your own fragile ego. BNM
Oh please, you know why this team won less games last year and you're intentionally ignoring the facts to continue on with what I can only label as trolling.
The one time I was frustrated with Andre Miller was against the suns on Friday. He turned the ball over and I had hoped that P.Mills was put in the 4th quarter for a little bit of that loss.
